More under-rated than Lex

[Carbomb]

26 minutes ago, gmoney said:

Thinking about this a little more deeply, I wonder if people involved in the British wrestling scene were too embarrassed by Daddy to try something similar and not giving audiences what they clearly wanted (i.e a big daft colourful fat bloke in main events) Why weren't more people trying to copy a proven successful gimmick? Maybe they did and none of them took, but the sense I always get from contemporaries of his and people in the scene later on is that they were desperate to move away from that sort of silliness and focus on the hard man/technical side of British wrestling. There's always been a self consciousness and shame about Daddy, but you can't argue that it was what people happily paid to see in this country for a very long time. 

Oh, I wouldn't argue it at all. The numbers spoke for themselves, and, despite my criticisms of Big Daddy, I think the Hall of Fame's organisers' reasoning against including him in it (is it Meltzer?) is a load of arbitrary, bad faith bullshit. In this regard, I would compare him (to a limited degree) to Hogan - he was the face of and probably the responsible for the biggest boom period in British wrestling, but his outstaying his welcome also contributed to (but was not solely responsible for) a major collapse.

I don't know how true it is, but there's always been that story circulating about the time that Max Crabtree took Big Daddy with him to the Sky or ITV offices to try to "impress" whichever executive it was in charge that it was worth keeping British wrestling going, and they got laughed out of the office. Even if it's not true, that so many people could easily believe it would suggest that maybe there was a sense of embarrassment. Even if there wasn't, there soon would be, with the new standards of wrestler look, presentation, and production that the WWF were bringing to the UK.

[davertfnewman]

7 hours ago, BomberPat said:

I think Gorilla Monsoon getting slated by Meltzer and Observer readers is the other side of the coin of Joey Styles being considered the best announcer in the world for years, despite, in hindsight, often being a distraction and a very irritating presence. Gorilla Monsoon didn't name all the moves, Joey Styles did. It's the equivalent of thinking someone is a better wrestler because they do more moves.

Joey Styles with his falseness, smarmy manner and screaming renders an entire promotion unwatchable for me.

[theringmaster]

18 hours ago, Carbomb said:

 I think the Hall of Fame's organisers' reasoning against including him in it (is it Meltzer?)

So the Observer hall of fame is always based on votes from members, Meltzer has addressed Big Daddy specifically in the past saying he is worthy but he doesn't get enough votes, probably because the majority of voters are American and don't recognise the impact he had.

WWE will never do it because they have tried many times to buy the World of Sport archive from ITV and always get turned down.

[BomberPat]

Meltzer has repeatedly make arguments against Big Daddy being in, on the grounds that he didn't headline enough events in large capacity arenas - which overlooks that this just wasn't the business model for British wrestling - and that he ended up having too much of a negative impact on the industry; that point is easier to argue, but it should also mean that nobody currently actively wrestling should be eligible for the Hall of Fame, because we won't know the overall impact of their career until after it's done. 

[theringmaster]

16 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Meltzer has repeatedly make arguments against Big Daddy being in, on the grounds that he didn't headline enough events in large capacity arenas - which overlooks that this just wasn't the business model for British wrestling - and that he ended up having too much of a negative impact on the industry; that point is easier to argue, but it should also mean that nobody currently actively wrestling should be eligible for the Hall of Fame, because we won't know the overall impact of their career until after it's done. 

I have defiantly listened to an episode of WOR where he says it's because most voters are American but what you said sounds like something Meltzer would say I can't argue?

[Merzbow]

I've seen Dave reply to people on Twitter with the exact kind of talk Bomber wrote, he's seemingly completely dismissive of that era of British wrestling and wrestlers unless they've also been in America and/or Japan to some level. It's one reason his historian status doesn't sit with me.

Anyway.. underrated guys, as much as I dislike him as a person these days Disco Inferno is someone I've always found hugely underrated from his WCW peak era, a more than solid wrestler who understood the importance of character work and a rare case of wrestling comedy that actually really worked for the most part. I think a lot of the "he can't wrestle" talk was simply because he didn't wrestle like all the other amazing cruiserweights, but that was the point.

[Carbomb]

11 minutes ago, Merzbow said:

I've seen Dave reply to people on Twitter with the exact kind of talk Bomber wrote, he's seemingly completely dismissive of that era of British wrestling and wrestlers unless they've also been in America and/or Japan to some level. It's one reason his historian status doesn't sit with me.

Yup. To dismiss the WOS era is also surprisingly ignorant from someone who claims that influence is a major factor, because there are so many of his darlings, like Chris Hero, Colt Cabana, Mike Quackenbush, Johnny Smith, not to mention all the Lancashire Cup stuff with Michinoku Pro, who cribbed a lot of the Johnny Saint/Steve Grey Lancashire catch style for their work on the US indies and in puro.

[air_raid]

41 minutes ago, Merzbow said:

Anyway.. underrated guys, as much as I dislike him as a person these days Disco Inferno is someone I've always found hugely underrated from his WCW peak era, a more than solid wrestler who understood the importance of character work and a rare case of wrestling comedy that actually really worked for the most part.

[BomberPat]

46 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Yup. To dismiss the WOS era is also surprisingly ignorant from someone who claims that influence is a major factor, because there are so many of his darlings, like Chris Hero, Colt Cabana, Mike Quackenbush, Johnny Smith, not to mention all the Lancashire Cup stuff with Michinoku Pro, who cribbed a lot of the Johnny Saint/Steve Grey Lancashire catch style for their work on the US indies and in puro.

You then get the flipside when it comes to the Hall of Fame, where Johnny Saint is in based largely on longevity and influence, because tapes of his matches - and, eventually, the man himself - had an influence on guys like Bryan Danielson and Zack Sabre Jr. 

I love Saint, but from a British perspective it's hard to argue for a Hall of Fame that has him in over Jackie Pallo, Kendo Nagasaki, Big Daddy, Adrian Street, Giant Haystacks, or Davey Boy Smith, to a name but a few. The only Brits of the World of Sport era that are in are McManus, Saint, Kent Walton, and Rollerball Rocco. The only other Brits at all are Billy Robinson, George Kidd, and Bert Assirati. 

[Carbomb]

And, purely on the basis of the "walk out of the way of a flyer" spot, Les Kellett should be in there. 

[tiger_rick]

Inspired by the UK Rampage chat in another thread to mention that 1993 Jim Duggan has a great little run. A lot of it is against Shawn Michaels, who made most people look good but his work in putting over Yokozuna, his comeback in the singlet and his graft in with Shawn on several Raw episodes and Coliseum tapes is genuinely great stuff.

Singlet Jim is great. Even knocked out some records slamming and jamming.

[Chili]

1 hour ago, tiger_rick said:

Inspired by the UK Rampage chat in another thread to mention that 1993 Jim Duggan has a great little run. A lot of it is against Shawn Michaels, who made most people look good but his work in putting over Yokozuna, his comeback in the singlet and his graft in with Shawn on several Raw episodes and Coliseum tapes is genuinely great stuff.

Singlet Jim is great. Even knocked out some records slamming and jamming.

Yeah I'm not sure what lit a fire under his arse, but it's the closest to his WWF debut era where you almost get proper Mid-South/UWF Duggan in the Fed.

[Merzbow]

1993 was full of moving parts, people coming and going and the whole steroids trial. A move to allowing smaller more "workrate" guys to have a chance higher up the card, too. Some of all that may have had him thinking he'd need to change things up.

[Chili]

10 hours ago, Merzbow said:

I've seen Dave reply to people on Twitter with the exact kind of talk Bomber wrote, he's seemingly completely dismissive of that era of British wrestling and wrestlers unless they've also been in America and/or Japan to some level. It's one reason his historian status doesn't sit with me.

Anyway.. underrated guys, as much as I dislike him as a person these days Disco Inferno is someone I've always found hugely underrated from his WCW peak era, a more than solid wrestler who understood the importance of character work and a rare case of wrestling comedy that actually really worked for the most part. I think a lot of the "he can't wrestle" talk was simply because he didn't wrestle like all the other amazing cruiserweights, but that was the point.

Nice to see Disco mentioned. He's obviously a genuine arsehole but I always got a kick out of his 90's Honky Tonk Man of WCW and he legitimately could put out some decent to very good matches with the right people. Very meat and potatoes wrestler with a funny gimmick to hide that. 

There's a really good TV Title Match against Alex Wright that's absolutely worth watching because it's two heels but the crowd have chosen to REALLY side with Disco for the match and it's rather funky seeing a crowd live and die on some near falls for Disco Inferno of all people to get the big win. Very Corbin in Paris.

 

 

 

[RedTwoster]

11 hours ago, theringmaster said:

WWE will never do it because they have tried many times to buy the World of Sport archive from ITV and always get turned down.

I can’t imagine they care a huge amount about that these days - I’d be surprised if TKO was bothered about hoarding talent. If Wrestlemania ever does take place in the UK, I could see him being inducted then - I certainly don’t think it’s impossible.