DavidB6937 Posted January 25 Posted January 25 The toughest part of what you've said there is the refusal to stick with any help plan. Because (and of course im generalising, so this obviously isnt gospel across the board) it's a two way street - people can be offered help but it only works as much as they put the effort in and commit to it. Someone has to be ready and in the right place to accept help and fight for it. All you can do is support them, let them know that you're there and what concerns you have. Continue to make recommendations and be there. You see it a lot especially with drug and alcohol abuse in terms of people slipping etc. And they often get abandoned because it's so hard to watch someone fall apart like that and continue to make the mistakes. Quote
Paid Members Gus Mears Posted January 25 Paid Members Posted January 25 (edited) David is right, you can't do anything other than continue to offer support (whether personal or signposting relevant help services), be consistent, and try and keep in mind that alcohol and alcoholism makes people you like and love do infuriating things you can't understand. Only other thing I'd say is keep in mind that you are not responsible for his actions and decisions. If you are doing what you can in offering support, you have done your part. The choices are his. Edited January 25 by Gus Mears Quote
Paid Members BigJag Posted January 26 Paid Members Posted January 26 Cheers @Ralphy I hope you're keeping well. In regards to my friend. He has plenty of support and intervention. The most difficult aspect for those around him is the insistance on not helping himself. Ultimately the individual has to make the correct choices. He inavriably makes the wrong choices. For his health, his realtionships, his life. Steering him along the correct path can be quite fruitless at times. The reluctance to take advice and use that advice for positive results is bizarre. He'd rather be self destructive and wallow in self pity. Lifting him out of that can be quite difficult. Currently I'm being quite robust with him and making him aware of the simple things he needs to manage. Proper hydration and nutrition being the top priority. Quote
AnotherCrapUsername Posted January 27 Posted January 27 21 hours ago, BigJag said: Cheers @Ralphy I hope you're keeping well. In regards to my friend. He has plenty of support and intervention. The most difficult aspect for those around him is the insistance on not helping himself. Ultimately the individual has to make the correct choices. He inavriably makes the wrong choices. For his health, his realtionships, his life. Steering him along the correct path can be quite fruitless at times. The reluctance to take advice and use that advice for positive results is bizarre. He'd rather be self destructive and wallow in self pity. Lifting him out of that can be quite difficult. Currently I'm being quite robust with him and making him aware of the simple things he needs to manage. Proper hydration and nutrition being the top priority. I've dealt with addiction issues in the past and a lot of what your friend is doing rings true. Unfortunately, until your friend makes the decision that they require help, then there isn't much more than you already are. They have to make the decision to get clean and sober, not anyone else. Echoing what others have already said, the only thing that you can do is be there to pick them back up when they fall down. I had people telling me for years that I had a problem, deep down I knew that was the case, however thought I knew better and had a grip on it. By that point there was nothing to grip on to. I finally hit my rock bottom, sat in a prostitutes front room after a 3 day bender, trying crack for the first time. It was at that moment that I made the decision that things had to change. It's sounds as though your friend has not yet hit rock bottom. As harsh as this sounds, you need to wait for that to be the case. At that point he will then hopefully ask for help. There's plenty of support out there once he's made the decision to stop using. Going to Narcotics Anonymous saved my life. I'm now a sponsor to someone on their journey and life is so much more manageable! If you want to chat further, please feel free to drop me a dm. Quote
Paid Members BigJag Posted January 27 Paid Members Posted January 27 @AnotherCrapUsername thanks for the input and well done. I can't imagine how hard it is. My friend doesn't have much further to fall. The hope is that he realises and turns things around. @Ralphy thanks again. I've been doing me best to guide him. He's making some positive moves. Needs to be consistent and less obnoxious. Quote
AnotherCrapUsername Posted January 27 Posted January 27 (edited) 4 hours ago, BigJag said: @AnotherCrapUsername thanks for the input and well done. I can't imagine how hard it is. My friend doesn't have much further to fall. The hope is that he realises and turns things around. @Ralphy thanks again. I've been doing me best to guide him. He's making some positive moves. Needs to be consistent and less obnoxious. That's the thing. Anyone who hasn't been through it doesn't really understand it. Before I even used, I didn't understand it and was of the thought process that it was self inflicted. It's not it's a mental illness and like anything requires time, patience and understanding from the individual. It's a massive lifestyle change and that in itself can be very daunting to an addict. We, by nature are liars and conmen. Mostly to ourselves. I'll start tomorrow was my favourite line of thinking. The mantra, one is too many and a thousand is never enough could not be more accurate. I really hope that your friend gets the help he needs. As frustrating for you as it can be, you are doing what you can by being there. Anything that has happened before now is not worth focusing on, it can't be changed, so why use that energy up? Focus on tomorrow being the best day ot can be. That doesn't necessarily mean giving up cold turkey. It could be something as simple as getting out of the house and completing a small shop. Celebrate the victories and don't dwell on the defeats. Your friend will stumble, they will crash, but when they come out the otherside, they will remember who was there for them. Edited January 27 by AnotherCrapUsername Spelt otherwise instead of otherside Quote
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 27 Paid Members Posted January 27 The other thing that really rings true is that you said your friend keeps making all the wrong choices. Unfortunately, making all the wrong choices is part of the deal when it comes to addiction. Or at least it was for me. I would make horrible decisions not because I didn't think it would fuck up my relationship, or my job, or disappoint people, but because I knew that it would, and that the same voice in my head that was telling me to keep going was telling me that those negative consequences were just what I deserved in the first place. The best you can do is be there. It's a frustrating experience, and I've been on both sides of it to some extent. A lot of people will get pushed away and, frankly, they wouldn't be doing anything wrong in letting that happen. But sticking by your friend means that there is another voice combating that one in their head, even if they don't always hear it, or it doesn't always win out. But it's better than the voice not being there at all. Quote
Paid Members I Bent My Wookie Posted January 27 Paid Members Posted January 27 I think that line about being the friend who's voice combats the others is important too, because just by trying to be a good influence and person around your friend you're giving them someone there that isn't on "the dark side". This was where I fell down too many times. And I've seen it with others. Too many 'friends' relied on just needing booze or drugs in our social circle to have a good time. So I would drink to excess every night because different friendship circles. Or be on other stuff. While the friends who actually wanted me healthy and supported I pushed away because if I didn't have a problem with group B, why did Group A assume I did too. And a lot of that was where my mental health was at the time and probably still is, but through those friends sticking around, though never pushing too hard for me to change but instead being that presence away when I realised some of it was too much, got me in a healthier place, where I can drink with them but even that I don't need to have a laugh with them. Be present, but don't be a force I guess. When in the grips of something you think you have control of but don't, any extra weight is gonna make everything more unstable, like adding a box to an already tipping tower. It'll either cause everything to fall and get much worse or cause a fight or flight response of why are you adding to my tower I need to get away. Be there, signpost as people have said but try and do things not involving drink or the pub as much as you can but gets them to spend time doing other things. Make up an excuse to go watch a movie or something, tell them to grab a bite to eat with you or find that old interest you both shared and use that. The first time in a really long time I realised I wasn't just happy with alcohol or that alcohol was my personality was a mate taking me clothes shopping for advice while taking the piss out of my own fashion sense. It made me realise I used to be known for knowledge not just dressing like shit and being by myself in the pub every night. Its a long road and in honesty even if it doesn't appear it your friend is happy to have you around, it's just unlocking the old them thats essentially been locked in the beer cellar that they've pushed away more than anyone else. Quote
Paid Members BigJag Posted January 27 Paid Members Posted January 27 Thank you all for the advice. I've just had a long chat with him on a somewhat frivolous topic. He's nowhere near where he needs to be both physically and mentally. I'm focusing on the physical wellbeing side of things. Largely due to not being any sort of expert on the mental aspect. The idea is to get him physically healthy. Giving him a better chance at tackling his demons. Quote
Paid Members I Bent My Wookie Posted January 27 Paid Members Posted January 27 To a degree that could be the best way forward to, invite him on some walks or something where he can exercise and then approach how hes eating, even if you use your own diet or stuff you've eaten recently as an example. Even if its just small compliments about a t shirt hes wearing or a haircut, just try and build him up a little so he knows he's doing okay in some aspects, I know in my most depressed states where I was in self destruct and drinking I took such little care of how I looked that friends were having to try and coaxe me to not look like I was absolutely ruined before we could even try and address my mentality and vices. Quote
Paid Members BigJag Posted January 28 Paid Members Posted January 28 I'm not a fitness expert either. The advice I'm offering to him is very simple common sense advice. Inviting him out has been done to death. He always finds an excuse or flat out refuses. We did get him out to Retro Computer Museum the other week. Something that happens too rarely. He's isolated himself. Quote
AnotherCrapUsername Posted January 28 Posted January 28 2 hours ago, BigJag said: I'm not a fitness expert either. The advice I'm offering to him is very simple common sense advice. Inviting him out has been done to death. He always finds an excuse or flat out refuses. We did get him out to Retro Computer Museum the other week. Something that happens too rarely. He's isolated himself. That's generally what happens with addiction and mental health issues. The person suffering will isolate themselves and then use more because they feel they're on their own. It really is the most vicious of cycles. Walking is fucking fantastic to be honest. Come rain or shine. Really gets the endorphins going and that in itself makes you feel better. You don't have to be Joe Wickes or Mr Motivator. There must be somewhere close like a national park etc, I'm pretty sure I've seen you mention on here that you live in Leicester or close by. Somewhere like Beacon Hill would be a great shout. Grab a coffee and just walk aimlessly up there chatting about anything other than his issues. Quote
Paid Members BigJag Posted January 28 Paid Members Posted January 28 Great advice. There are exactly those type of places nearby. Unfortunately, the issue is getting him to commit. He does go for walks himself. That aspect definitely needs to be built upon. I have noticed that he sleeps a lot. And at odd times. He blames this on his mother and her erratic behaviour. Quote
DavidB6937 Posted January 28 Posted January 28 1 hour ago, BigJag said: I have noticed that he sleeps a lot. And at odd times. He blames this on his mother and her erratic behaviour. That's often one of the toughest cycles to get caught on. When you're going through something it inevitably impacts on those close to you, who then struggle, which then impacts back on you etc etc. And as much as people want to be supportive, it absolutely takes its toll, which is why support groups and therapy can be so essential. It allows help but with a degree of separation. Quote
King Mal the Glorious Posted February 10 Posted February 10 After years of "just getting on with it", I finally had a consultation with a GP about my mental health this morning. Spent a solid hour talking about my moods, behaviour, history etc etc. Initial suspicion is type 2 bipolar, but that won't be confirmed until further down the line. Been referred to a specialist and have a follow up in a couple of weeks. Glad I've finally taken this step, should have done it years ago but I've always thought "it's not that bad" even though it's very obviously affecting my day to day life, relationships, physical health and more. Better late than never eh? Quote
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