The King Of Swing Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 If AEW were copying 2000 WCW they would have botched the bloodbath. Decent show, shit crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted May 24 Paid Members Share Posted May 24 You won’t get much disagreement on the Jericho stuff or Malakai Black spooky bollocks.  I think it’s a bit of a doom and gloom outlook based on one episode though.  Dynamite 01/05 5,377, Collision on 11/05 had 6,600, Dynamite 08/05 4,800, Dynasty 6,600.  No doubt the shows where it’s 2500-3000 look and sound bad when they still book out big arenas and there has been much discussion of that on here, but I don’t think we’re at coming off the road territory. WWE is hot again, the AEW initial buzz/novelty has worn off, it’s much more variable depending on markets etc. On average attendances are down, I’m not trying to bury my head in the sand on that, but I do think people get very hyperbolic about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 3 minutes ago, JLM said: You won’t get much disagreement on the Jericho stuff or Malakai Black spooky bollocks.  I think it’s a bit of a doom and gloom outlook based on one episode though.  Dynamite 01/05 5,377, Collision on 11/05 had 6,600, Dynamite 08/05 4,800, Dynasty 6,600.  No doubt the shows where it’s 2500-3000 look and sound bad when they still book out big arenas and there has been much discussion of that on here, but I don’t think we’re at coming off the road territory. WWE is hot again, the AEW initial buzz/novelty has worn off, it’s much more variable depending on markets etc. On average attendances are down, I’m not trying to bury my head in the sand on that, but I do think people get very hyperbolic about it. I don't mean to be doom and gloom and it's not based on one episode. I stopped watching it weekly about a year ago, which seems to be the case for about 16-20% of their audience depending on where you look. I'm wary of how fast any company that's not WWE can go south, as should any wrestling fan. They are now and have always been far healthier than TNA ever were, but I remember one week watching Hogan, Bischoff, Styles, Angle, Sting, RVD etc on the road with the lights on bright and the next they were back in Orlando looking like a dystopian game show re-creation of themselves five years previously. It can happen, even with significant financial backing. Not that doing weeklies in Daily's Place is even the worse idea. That arena rules, and there was some interesting discussion on here awhile back - if I recall - on if AEW were more or less mainly just a TV product. Daily's Place is a great place to do your TV product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 The Jericho stuff is easily the worst thing in AEW right now. Bad on every level and making everyone else involved look shit by association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted May 24 Paid Members Share Posted May 24 (edited) The thing with the Jericho stuff is that it's not just bad and hurtful to the product on a surface level but that it also has the stink of someone who knows their time in the spotlight may just be up and is desperately clinging on for dear life. Edited May 24 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukhy Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, DavidB6937 said: What do you find desperate about it? Just curious, especially if you didn't think it was desperate before. I get there's a few little OTT things here and there, but on the whole they're not anywhere near WCW 2000 for me. The best thing for these people to do, is compare the WCW 2000 cards to Dynamite, they'll be in for a shock. This guy is tracking it on twitter. Unless AEW suddenly have shit like Shawn Stasiak Vs Caption Rection on TV, let's just allow the hyperbolic remarks.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Whacky car crash angles in dimly lit arenas. I'm not saying it's the same quality as 2000 WCW up and down the card but do you really have to stretch your imagination that much to allow the offhand reference space to land? Especially when I'm taking such great pains to point out that it's completely subjective and I wish I enjoyed it more.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted May 24 Paid Members Share Posted May 24 (edited) It’s the “angles” and “arenas” bits that feel like you’re extrapolating based on one episode though. It was an utterly batshit episode in front of a particularly low crowd. One of the lowest this month and by far one of the most mental episodes. Dynamite (and especially Collision) does not do things like this every week. Also as I mentioned, there have been 5-6000 attended shows this month, which is comparable to the bright lights/packed houses era.  Business is down, I don’t disagree that booking smaller venues and packing them is better than not filling big ones, but they’re not doing weekly car crash Russo TV and the crowds aren’t this bad every episode, so it just feels drastic to make the 2000 WCW comparison. The average attendance is lower but AEW has been in the 2-6000 range outside of PPVs and specials for most of its run and it still is. Again not trying to say the lower ratings and attendances aren’t a thing, they definitely are and it is really shit when the episodes have a a really small crowd and the show suffers for it, but I do think it is being overstated. Edited May 24 by JLM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 4 minutes ago, JLM said: It’s the “angles” and “arenas” bits that feel like you’re extrapolating based on one episode though. It was an utterly batshit episode in front of a particularly low crowd. One of the lowest this month and by far one of the most mental episodes. Dynamite (and especially Collision) does not do things like this every week. Also as I mentioned, there have been 5-6000 attended shows this month, which is comparable to the bright lights/packed houses era.  Business is down, I don’t disagree that booking smaller venues and packing them is better than not filling big ones, but they’re not doing weekly car crash Russo TV and the crowds aren’t this bad every episode, so it just feels drastic to make the 2000 WCW comparison. Oh I'm totally basing the review on one episode. It's just that that seems...like a really normal thing for me, though? But fair enough. I'll stop eating into the thread now and save it and myself from tedium because I've probably overexplained!  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted May 24 Paid Members Share Posted May 24 21 minutes ago, The Gaffer said: Whacky car crash angles in dimly lit arenas. I'm not saying it's the same quality as 2000 WCW up and down the card but do you really have to stretch your imagination that much to allow the offhand reference space to land?  Come on mate, don't rile up the AEW police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted May 24 Paid Members Share Posted May 24 (edited) Obviously your review of one episode is going to be based on one episode. I think i can piece together the logic of that concept. Your review of the state of the entire promotion based on the one episode just seemed a bit hyperbolic.   Like I could watch that one episode of Collision earlier this month with over 6000 in attendance and say AEW attendances are amazing and it’s all packed houses and hot crowds and bright lights, we’re in 2021 again!!! But that would be unreasonable to say because over the course of the month they won’t all be like that. Your opinion on the quality of the show is of course subjective and I’m not taking issue with how much you enjoyed it as that would be mad, just saying that this episode was far more crash TV than a typical one and also had a particularly poor crowd, so saying they should stop touring and comparing them to WCW 2000 seemed a little bit over the top.  I’m not trying to stop anyone discussing their opinion of the show or be the AEW police (this is the only place I discuss wrestling to try and avoid tribal fan bullshit like that)  just offering a bit of balance/perspective. Edited May 24 by JLM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 48 minutes ago, sukhy said: The best thing for these people to do, is compare the WCW 2000 cards to Dynamite, they'll be in for a shock. This guy is tracking it on twitter. Unless AEW suddenly have shit like Shawn Stasiak Vs Caption Rection on TV, let's just allow the hyperbolic remarks.  What really shocks me is the match lengths. The main is 5 minutes, the shortest match is 38 seconds, and they some how had a 4 team eliminated tag in 4 mins 36 secs. And it's set to get worse too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted May 24 Paid Members Share Posted May 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, JLM said: I’m not trying to stop anyone discussing their opinion of the show or be the AEW police (this is the only place I discuss wrestling to try and avoid tribal fan bullshit like that)  just offering a bit of balance/perspective. Yeah, I'm also probably being a bit hyperbolic also, but it does annoy me a bit that people who raise genuine criticisms are jumped on when they're not really saying anything particularly shocking. I've lost interest in AEW myself over the past couple of months, and held back from posting about it partly because because I don't want to appear that negative, and partly because people who do seem to be grilled about it overly, or whinged about in paid. Edited May 24 by gmoney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted May 24 Paid Members Share Posted May 24 It does happen, but I like to think I was just discussing the criticism in good faith on what is, after all, a discussion forum. People are quick to make the “AEW die hard” and “AEW police” comments but it doesn’t happen in WWE threads. People will watch AEW and say “oh this boring AEW habit of putting on long matches with obvious outcomes” and then I watch Backlash where the entire PPV is exactly that,  and see Supremo get ripped apart for saying it was a glorified house show instead of a B show. And nobody says “oh WWE defense force strikes again” it’s just considered to be lots of people disagreeing with him. I don’t think it should happen for either promotion and I’m not trying to turn this into WWE vs AEW. I watch both, please if anyone thinks I’m an AEW tribalist read my Wrestlemania or Backlash posts. I can’t sit through three hours of RAW but I still watch what I can and watch/enjoy the PPVs in full. It does feel like AEW is held to a higher standard on here though, and if people are overzealous or whiny in their defense at times I think that is a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, JLM said: Like I could watch that one episode of Collision earlier this month with over 6000 in attendance This has been one of the major issues that AEW has had in the past year. A-B towns used for the 2nd show. As well as the watered down shows with some talent split across Dynamite/Collision. It was a simpler time having Dynamite for almost everything, Rampage as a fun Saturday morning catch-up and minor stories. Dark/Elevation tucked away for the diehards if that's what they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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