d-d-d-dAz Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) Only very slightly connected to this oversll topic, but I recommend finding the documentary 'Where's My Roy Cohn?' If you can. The work he did over the decades before his death, and crucially how he did it, underpins a lot of how the rogue elements within the Republican party now operate. Trailer: edit* I say 'rogue elements', they're pretty mainstream within the party now I guess. Edited December 28, 2023 by d-d-d-dAz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 6 hours ago, d-d-d-dAz said: It's politics, its supposed to inspire debate but here we are, back at 'fuck off'. Oh, come on. I didn't mean for you to literally fuck off. It's a turn of phrase, you surely know that? As in "Oh, fuck off mate. I'm not having that." And you've been here long enough to know that I'm all about that sweet, sweet debate. But degree or not, I'm not having you throw Yang and Corbyn in there with the company that you did. that's the line in the sand for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) To be fair, Yang isn't a populist. An idealist, maybe, but not a populist. I'm not retreading the Corbyn argument, but he's a populist - or populist adjacent - in so much as he would use 'the people' to quell dissent within his own party and often said things that simply couldn't happen without a complete overthrow of British democracy. Even if, most of the time, I had sympathy with his positions and think he deserved better from his party. Back to Yang, though. And not just him, any of the Tech and business leaders who've expressed an interest in running for office. It's a shame they're only interested in running for SUPREMO positions where they're atop the tree. I think people like Yang, Ramaswamy, Cuban et al probably have something to offer a serious government in terms of modernising processes and becoming more digitally and commercially savvy. It's why, even though he was a big lump of wood who I don't agree with on anything, I've got a level of respect for Rex Tillerson for at least having a sense of perspective of his personal standing, and how he could potentially add value to government and his country. Edited December 28, 2023 by d-d-d-dAz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said: I'm not retreading the Corbyn argument, but he's a populist - or populist adjacent - in so much as he would use 'the people' to quell dissent within his own party and often said things that simply couldn't happen without a complete overthrow of British democracy On 12/23/2023 at 10:38 AM, Devon Malcolm said: Sounds great, where do I sign up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Call me old-fashioned, and not down with the kids, but I quite like living in a democracy, and prefer it (as imperfect as it is) to Corbynistan or whatever you are signing up for. It's something of an inevitable product of long periods of relative peace and stability, I guess, that people start taking their current freedoms for granted. To drag it back on topic, this certainly seems like what's happened in the US in the last decade or so - there is a genuinely popular movement that increasingly hates the US government, state, democratic institutions and global interconnections. It's been said a lot since 2016, but Trump is the symptom, not the cause, of the increasingly dysfunctional politics over there. He represents a very old fashioned figure - the King who wields all power and makes the State simple (and white, let's be honest) again. L'etât c'est moi, and all that. This may be wishful thinking, but the country's rejection of both Corbyn and latterly Johnson suggests that we're not yet following some of our European and US counterparts down that road. The British have never really embraced fascism or communism, or any other brand of demagoguery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Loki said: Call me old-fashioned, and not down with the kids, but I quite like living in a democracy, Same, which is why I highlighted “British democracy” which is anything but. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) Anything but what, sorry? Edit: I don't want to further derail this US thread, so I'll assume you mean that Britain isn't a democracy, and we'll have to disagree politely on that! Edited December 28, 2023 by Loki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Loki said: Anything but what, sorry? Edit: I don't want to further derail this US thread, so I'll assume you mean that Britain isn't a democracy, and we'll have to disagree politely on that! I’m saying British democracy isn’t very democratic. FPTP isn’t very democratic. You’ve agreed on this in the past many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: I’m saying British democracy isn’t very democratic. FPTP isn’t very democratic. You’ve agreed on this in the past many times. I’m no fan of FPTP but it’s absolutely a form of democracy. It’s just not a form that delivers the sort of governments you’d like! I much prefer our system to the US system for starters. I’m not convinced a European style PR system will bring you a socialist utopia either, it’s just as likely to bring the sort of far-right supported nonsense we’re seeing across Europe now. All democracy is imperfect, but all democracy is preferable to the alternative imo. Anyway… Septics huh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 28, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 28, 2023 There's nobody better at living rent free than Jeremy Corbyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: There's nobody better at living rent free than Jeremy Corbyn. Free rent is probably one of his policies. Has anyone followed the Republican primaries, out of interest? They've obviously been pathetic, but the fact that NIKKI HALEY has been cast as the grown up in the room is utterly heartbreaking. Had Biden been the President people assumed he would be when he won the nomination (ie, celebrate the fact you're a one term Pres righting the ship, use the four years to improve the profile of potential successors) the Democrats would be sailing in 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Loki said: It’s just not a form that delivers the sort of governments you’d like 10 minutes ago, Loki said: ’m not convinced a European style PR system will bring you a socialist utopia either, It’s not about what suits me. Believe it or not, it’s possible to want a more representative democracy even though it won’t benefit me in the slightest. That’s what democracy is about, whatever people decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted December 28, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, Loki said: Anyway… Septics huh! Septics indeed. Republican primary candidate Nikki Haley was asked the question "What was the cause of the US civil war?" and she failed to mention slavery in her answer. Instead she said it was people's dissatisfaction with the government. That's a hell of a way to look at history, and by hell of a way I of course mean racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said: Septics indeed. Republican primary candidate Nikki Haley was asked the question "What was the cause of the US civil war?" and she failed to mention slavery in her answer. Instead she said it was people's dissatisfaction with the government. That's a hell of a way to look at history, and by hell of a way I of course mean racist. It's also a tremendous flub in the current climate as it allows Trump to play moderate, which is his strategy on a number of issues now. He's probably completely unstoppable in the nomination race now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted December 28, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 28, 2023 33 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: There's nobody better at living rent free than Jeremy Corbyn. I dont think the phrase 'rent free' really applies when we're all living through the consequences of gifting the Tories a record breaking majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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