AEW London 2023

[air_raid]

9 hours ago, AndyUK said:

I’m looking forward to MJF/Cole and have no problem with it being on the card but still don’t feel like it’s big enough to be the main match on this show. 

 

8 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

It’s a world title match

"World title match" doesn't always stand up as the biggest attraction on the biggest card. Most analogous to this show, Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior wasn't the main event at SummerSlam 92, Bret vs Smithers was. Every promotion's known when their title match isn't the most anticipated that they've cooked up. ROH didn't have Nigel vs Marufuji as their main event for their belt when they had Danielson vs KENTA to go on last. Two world title matches didn't main event Mania 28 because they didn't stand up to Rock vs Cena. Wrestle Kingdom 8 had Okada vs Naito for the belt semi main because the fans wanted the ICT match to main event, as it was Nakamura vs Tanahashi. Most famously for me, HHH vs Jericho shouldn't have gone on last as a World title match at Mania 18 because it simply wasn't as big a deal as Rock vs Hogan.

For me, MJF vs "just Adam Cole" is nowhere near the biggest match AEW can put on with their resources so it absolutely shouldn't main event a house this big.

2 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Punk/Omega hasn't even had any build.

Does that matter? Sometimes the anticipation is enough. Sometimes the clamour to see THAT MATCH is enough. Joe vs Kobashi was the most anticipated match ROH ever put on, and technically the only build for that was Joe dropping Kobashi's name (among others) on a previous show.

Sometimes a promotion can have a marquee match and actually dampen the anticipation in the build if they get it wrong. Steve Austin vs The Rock at Mania 17 was nearly fighting over Debra in the Rock's corner. Lesnar vs Reigns had an embarrassing tug of war over the belt. Sometimes you're better off just announcing a match for the big event and letting people go "Fuck me, that's going to be good." Not that neither of those matches would have had zero build with the specific pieces of bullshit removed, and not that AEW would necessarily fuck up a Punk vs Omega build, just playing Devil's Advocate.

Edited August 4, 2023 by air_raid

[DavidB6937]

4 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Does that matter? Sometimes the anticipation is enough. Sometimes the clamour to see THAT MATCH is enough. Joe vs Kobashi was the most anticipated match ROH ever put on, and technically the only build for that was Joe dropping Kobashi's name (among others) on a previous show.

Sometimes a promotion can have a marquee match and actually dampen the anticipation in the build if they get it wrong. Steve Austin vs The Rock at Mania 17 was nearly fighting over Debra in the Rock's corner. Lesnar vs Reigns had an embarrassing tug of war over the belt. Sometimes you're better off just announcing a match for the big event and letting people go "Fuck me, that's going to be good." Not that neither of those matches would have had zero build with the specific pieces of bullshit removed, and not that AEW would necessarily fuck up a Punk vs Omega build, just playing Devil's Advocate.

It's definitely a fine line. Can only speak for myself but I'd much rather see MJF/Cole than Punk/Omega because the other guys have been so entertaining and engaging and a real highlight of AEW recently. The others would just be two big names fighting because they had a fight. Obviously I can understand why some people want it and why it'd do business but if they do go down that route I'd want it heated up a little first.

[air_raid]

1 minute ago, DavidB6937 said:

Obviously I can understand why some people want it and why it'd do business but if they do go down that route I'd want it heated up a little first.

That's the other argument. Eyes on the product. New Japan booked Kenny Omega vs Chris Jericho for Wrestle Kingdom 12 (I was there, LOL) to maximise the wider reach, and no, it didn't go on last, because the two men involved weren't at the peak of "big deal to the home promotion's core audience" that Okada was, defending the belt on last. As a casual, and there will be many casuals interested in this show on top of the AEW regulars who are going to watch it regardless, I like MJF as a talker and Cole is a decent wrestler but belt or not, it doesn't scream "must see this match" to me, Punk vs Omega definitely does. And as AEW positions itself (very strongly) as aware of and involving the wrestling industry as a whole outside the bubble of their own regulars, there's an argument that Punk and Omega are two of if not THE two biggest Western names in the business not signed by WWE, and the biggest match they could put on. Thus by proxy, the match with the highest % of people tuning in specifically to see. The winner, realistically, should be considered the biggest threat to the belt in the aftermath. I know the old schoolers will insist that nothing's bigger than the title, but that's how you end up with Jericho and Hunter working to virtual silence.

[Guest]

Current Story wise cole/MJF is the biggest match they can do. But it’s not the kinda match big enough for the main of  this show. The show should be a spectacle, not a tv rematch fest. Very little needs built when you can throw random matches out there that there’s massive interest to see 

[Hannibal Scorch]

1 hour ago, air_raid said:

I know the old schoolers will insist that nothing's bigger than the title, but that's how you end up with Jericho and Hunter working to virtual silence.

The storyline build up to that match was awful. I also don’t believe the title match doesn’t have to be the main event, however the hottest storyline right now has been “We’re Better Than You Bay-Bay” and the world title is involved. I see no issue with it.

[BomberPat]

2 hours ago, air_raid said:

That's the other argument. Eyes on the product. New Japan booked Kenny Omega vs Chris Jericho for Wrestle Kingdom 12 (I was there, LOL) to maximise the wider reach, and no, it didn't go on last, because the two men involved weren't at the peak of "big deal to the home promotion's core audience" that Okada was, defending the belt on last. As a casual, and there will be many casuals interested in this show on top of the AEW regulars who are going to watch it regardless, I like MJF as a talker and Cole is a decent wrestler but belt or not, it doesn't scream "must see this match" to me, Punk vs Omega definitely does. And as AEW positions itself (very strongly) as aware of and involving the wrestling industry as a whole outside the bubble of their own regulars, there's an argument that Punk and Omega are two of if not THE two biggest Western names in the business not signed by WWE, and the biggest match they could put on. Thus by proxy, the match with the highest % of people tuning in specifically to see. The winner, realistically, should be considered the biggest threat to the belt in the aftermath. I know the old schoolers will insist that nothing's bigger than the title, but that's how you end up with Jericho and Hunter working to virtual silence.

But Jericho/Omega not going on last at NJPW is the counterpoint to "not wanting a bigger match headlining over the title match"; that was the match to draw in "casuals" or international fans, who NJPW then hoped would stick around for the main event, and if you do that, you're basically saying "the guys you came to see? This next match is even bigger", and that's the way to do it, because that's how you turn casuals into regulars rather than having them just pop in for a one-off.

I don't particularly rate Adam Cole, and I think a lot of the storytelling leading into this match has been good, but not necessarily suitable for a World Title match. But it seems to consistently get good ratings, and MJF's promo on Dynamite shows that there's a serious edge to this story beneath all the goofy comedy, and I'm sure we'll see more of that brought to the forefront now that it's actually building to an announced title match. 

The other thing is that we might not see it, but Adam Cole is ridiculously over. There are probably a lot of people, likely younger than us, to whom Adam Cole is a really big deal, and this is a really big match. And MJF tends to deliver in big match scenarios, so I have no doubt it'll be a good match in the end, whatever happens.

As for Punk and Omega, we don't know what they are or aren't doing on the show yet. Omega referencing Collision on Dynamite means maybe that is the next step. Don Callis has been moved into Jericho's story for the time being, so that frees up Omega to not be messing around with him and his "Family" for the time being. So maybe we do get Punk/Omega in some capacity at Wembley - if the question is just over whether that main events or not, I'd have to see the rest of the card and know what they have planned before I consider that. Who knows, maybe they end up doing the "Lights Out" gimmick so that it goes on after MJF/Cole anyway, or maybe whatever happens in a Punk/Omega match feeds into the post-match angle for MJF/Cole. There's always something. 

[DavidB6937]

Definitely got the argument of not wanting to blow all your biggest matches at once too. If you've got something like Punk/Omega there waiting but you've got other matches you can delve into then you're better off spreading them out and drawing audiences over a few shows. But hey, maybe they will throw everything at Wembley. I guess we'll see.

[LaGoosh]

37 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

If you've got something like Punk/Omega there waiting but you've got other matches you can delve into then you're better off spreading them out and drawing audiences over a few shows.

While I understand there is some short term business logic to this, I couldn't disagree more. This is the biggest and most important show AEW will ever do, it's one of the biggest wrestling shows that will ever take place. They absolutely should throw everything at it and put on as many of the biggest matches they have as possible. There is significantly long term benefit to putting on something you could call The Greatest Biggest Show Of All Time than there is to keeping stuff in your back pocket just so you can draw slightly more down the line to a random Dynamite or Collision. The biggest show deserves the biggest matches, any wrestling promoter worth anything knows this.

WWE don't leave their biggest matches off Wrestlemania so they can save them for Backlash. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by LaGoosh

[mim731]

1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

Who knows, maybe they end up doing the "Lights Out" gimmick so that it goes on after MJF/Cole anyway, or maybe whatever happens in a Punk/Omega match feeds into the post-match angle for MJF/Cole. There's always something. 

[DavidB6937]

5 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

WWE don't leave their biggest matches off Wrestlemania so they can save them for Backlash. 

But that's comparing their biggest show to a minor follow up PPV which everyone knows is usually rematches anyway.

AEW have minimal PPVs as it is and the Wembley show is really an additional if anything. At the least they've still got All Out to try and sell. So while Wembley should definitely be a really good solid show they shouldn't be expected to throw everything at it just because.

[LaGoosh]

4 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

So while Wembley should definitely be a really good solid show they shouldn't be expected to throw everything at it just because.

Just because? It's the biggest show they will ever run. That seems like a pretty good reason to throw everything at it actually.

[2Xtreme_lives]

13 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

Just because? It's the biggest show they will ever run. That seems like a pretty good reason to throw everything at it actually.

Exactly this, You've also got to consider WWE will want to prove a point too to do the same thing in the future. 

I don't think AEW will run wembley ever again or to this scale again either in the near future. 

You've got to hit hard i think with this really cement your place here in the UK

[DavidB6937]

13 minutes ago, 2Xtreme_lives said:

Exactly this, You've also got to consider WWE will want to prove a point too to do the same thing in the future. 

I don't think AEW will run wembley ever again or to this scale again either in the near future. 

You've got to hit hard i think with this really cement your place here in the UK

WWE have already done Money in the Bank and are making more money than ever on their live events. While they might want to find ways of upstaging AEW out of spite, they're not going to be worrying about it from a financial standpoint or feeling the need to make any crazy kneejerk reactions. I doubt they feel that threatened.

AEW have managed to basically sell out Wembley without a card at all. It's a really impressive feat. 

[air_raid]

I, of course, will be that guy and remember the time the WWF passed over doing HHH vs The Rock for the belt with the much anticipated title switch at Mania and saved it for Backlash.

But it’s to be snide, and the point stands. No point not throwing everything at the biggest crowd you may ever have. If you could do prime Austin vs prime Goldberg on this show or save it for the next Clash Of The Champions, you’d do it now.

[Infinity Land]

Historically when companies have run whatever's going be their latest "Biggest show ever". Part-timer legends and Celebs end up involved with a host of multi-person matches to cram people on the card.