AEW Dynamite Thread 2023

[RedRooster]

37 minutes ago, WeeAl said:

I've got to think it's Max and Cole at Full Gear

I guess it depends on when MJF's contract expires - if it really does expire on January 1st as he's claimed (I'm dubious of this...) I would imagine that this is the only logical option. Alternatively, MJF/Jay White, MJF/Takeshita or (if they've signed him) MJF/Edge all seem like strong options. MJF/Will Ospreay is another match I could see happening, if he joins AEW on a full-time basis. If MJF does indeed leave, and they don't end up doing MJF/Omega before then, that would be a huge failure on Tony Khan's part. 

[LaGoosh]

I'm assuming MJF vs Punk was the plan for the autumn so they're probably winging it/trying to come up with a new direction at the moment. Outside of a heel turn from Cole there's no clear path for a babyface MJF right now that I can see.

[Infinity Land]

I don't think there was much of a direction with Punk. Nobody bothered to make a big deal out of the Real World Championship and going into All In the ROH Tag Title spot was set up for a while, Better Than You Baybay would be unchanged. Punk would be the one feuding with Ricky Starks.

Then I could see Punk v. Danielson as the big push on Collision island, as Danielson was ending up on Saturdays anyway post-ZSJ. CMFTR and Danielson/Claudio/Yuta working through variations up to Full Gear.

 

[Supremo]

That’s a point I’ve not seen anyone really mention. When Punk originally revealed his belt and called himself the Real World Champion there was a lot of chat that it made MJF look silly for not coming out or responding in the moment.

In retrospect, it was the smartest thing Max could ever do, both as a performer and as a character. Instead of getting tangled into Punk’s bullshit and likely being left floundering when it all went south and Punk vanished offscreen without any natural conclusion (see Ricky Starks), Max ended up looking like a a fucking boss, rightly ignoring a toxic, irrelevant idiot, both on and off screen.

You wonder if he knew what was coming, or didn’t want a repeat of last year where his big return and all that momentum was nearly squandered due to Punk’s behaviour. I’d never trust him again. Like Brian Harvey eating too many jacket potatoes and running himself over. You’d never let him near a spud again. Same with CM Punk and press conference muffins.

Either way, Max played a blinder here, staying the course with this brilliant storyline with Cole and Strong, dodging a huge bullet.

The way the Samoa Joe thing seemingly came out of nowhere when Joe had previously just lost clean to Punk, and with the most rushed tournament of all time to set it up (a trope Tony Khan always goes to when things go wrong), I assume the original plan was CM Punk vs. MJF at Grand Slam. A fantastic pivot, if true. What we got was a million times better than if Punk had continued playing this shitty tweener character, too busy trying to start angles that were never going to happen. The crux of the go-home promo would’ve been something like, “I’m going to beat Max because he’s rubbish….just like Hangman!” All whilst Hangman would’ve been somewhere else on the show, pretending he didn’t exist.

What a concluding run for a man who used to be the voice of the voiceless. He became the old man yelling at clouds, whilst the young talent completely ignored him. Circle of life.

[RedRooster]

32 minutes ago, Supremo said:

That’s a point I’ve not seen anyone really mention. When Punk originally revealed his belt and called himself the Real World Champion there was a lot of chat that it made MJF look silly for not coming out or responding in the moment.

In retrospect, it was the smartest thing Max could ever do, both as a performer and as a character. Instead of getting tangled into Punk’s bullshit and likely being left floundering when it all went south and Punk vanished offscreen without any natural conclusion (see Ricky Starks), Max ended up looking like a a fucking boss, rightly ignoring a toxic, irrelevant idiot, both on and off screen.

I'm not sure I agree with any of this - it's still utterly illogical that it was never addressed in my opinion. Why wouldn't an interviewer ask MJF what he thinks about that, even if he followed that up with nothing more than an eyeroll? You didn't even need to have MJF bring it up himself. Or why wouldn't the announcers question what he thinks? AEW could do better at feeling like an interconnected world in my opinion. 

35 minutes ago, Supremo said:

The way the Samoa Joe thing seemingly came out of nowhere when Joe had previously just lost clean to Punk, and with the most rushed tournament of all time to set it up (a trope Tony Khan always goes to when things go wrong), I assume the original plan was CM Punk vs. MJF at Grand Slam. A fantastic pivot, if true. What we got was a million times better than if Punk had continued playing this shitty tweener character, too busy trying to start angles that were never going to happen. The crux of the go-home promo would’ve been something like, “I’m going to beat Max because he’s rubbish….just like Hangman!” All whilst Hangman would’ve been somewhere else on the show, pretending he didn’t exist.

What a concluding run for a man who used to be the voice of the voiceless. He became the old man yelling at clouds, whilst the young talent completely ignored him. Circle of life.

I enjoyed Joe/MJF, but I think it's a little revisionist to suggest it would have been "a million times better" than MJF/Punk. The original Punk/MJF feud was one of the best storylines AEW has ever done - and it felt like it could easily have been revisited, to great effect. Punk didn't have time to hit his stride this time round, but he clearly had great chemistry with MJF - and I don't think there's any reason to think that would have changed this time round. Even the Hangman comment - that was stupid, but it was said off-air. Punk didn't have any on air clangers during his most recent stint, and he didn't attempt to start any feuds that couldn't happen - outside of the "counterfeit Bucks" comment, I can't think of any on air digs at people who weren't his opponents. Personally, I found his Collision-era feuds dull; but that was down to his opponents being a step below what you would expect for such a big star. 

The potential for Punk/MJF right now is massive - Punk trying to persuade Cole that MJF hasn't really changed, sewing seeds of doubt; MJF battling with his demons and whether or not he should revert to "the dark side" to defeat his greatest foe; perhaps even a Punk heel turn - with MJF proving to be the catalyst for that character switch. Heck, MJF could easily draw on the fact that the last time the two faced off, fans in Chicago were chanting his name and not Punk's. 

Say what you like about Punk as a person, but I think it does both performers a disservice to suggest a feud between them would have been weak. 

[organizedkaos]

Yeah, Punk/MJF is kinda one of the best storylines they've done in the last couple years that I've been watching (although that's a little more about AEW's inconsistency with storytelling than it is MJF/Punk being the be all and end all).  The Joe/MJF match was really good and the one 15 minutes of time they built to it were good too but it still felt rushed (don't get me wrong Joe shoving MJF was a great "oh shit, i want to see that play out more" moment)

Punk/MJF managed to squeeze a fair amount between the different segments and two matches. It was a little vunerable to Tony Kahns "each dynamite will give you the next 10 minutes of the story" booking of the time but yeah there was some strong character work and they'd been building to the third match from the moment MJF lost (although it was clearly always supposed to be MJF giving Punk his "most embarassing loss ever" by beating him for the title)

Still glad Punks gone and he definitely fucked up a bunch of storylines but might as well appreciate the bits that were good

[Supremo]

Punk vs. MJF is one of my favourite feuds of all time. But that was before Punk broke his own brain. I don’t think I’d have enjoyed it as much in 2023 if every segment, match and angle was overshadowed by endless bullshit. It’s a million times harder to get lost and invested in the fiction when seemingly every show ends with clips emerging of Punk burying other talent in off-air promos, slagging the company off in press interviews or endless reports of who is and isn’t allowed in the building with him.

Do that exact same feud in 2023, with Punk having completely lost the plot, and instead of effectively referencing The Miz, Raven and Greg Valentine to help build the story and bring the rivalry into focus, he’d have been making snide remarks about The Bucks and cutting shoot post-show promos on Adam Page’s ability to sell action figures. And then he would’ve been sacked before the Dog Collar match even happened. Sure, it would’ve been amazing when they swapped in Bryan Danielson to save the day again, he probably would’ve had the best Dog Collar match of all time, but any chance of them replicating that greatness once the Paranoid Punker had reached his final form? No chance.

I’m not under-selling Punk at all, He’s a top tier performer with one of the best minds for this business. It all counts for nothing when you’ve completely lost your mind though.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Supremo

[gmoney]

2 minutes ago, Supremo said:

Punk vs. MJF is one of my favourite feuds of all time. But that was before Punk broke his own brain. 

When did Punk break his own brain? What are you on about? He was by most accounts being a pain in the arse and rubbing people the wrong way already at that point, it just hadn't boiled over. You can enjoy things by people who are twats, if you like. There's no need to designate the bits you like and the bits you don't with an imaginary line in the sand. 

I also find the contruscted narrative of MJF somehow outsmarting people by avoiding mentioning the other world title really odd. We have no idea why he didn't, most likely they didn't want to muddy the waters with his own feud. I find that sort of speculation deeply weird. 

[Supremo]

24 minutes ago, gmoney said:

When did Punk break his own brain?

Watching his output as a performer, probably the night Hangman mentioned worker’s rights. Everything Punk did after that suffered massively. He went from doing the best work of his career with Kingston and MJF, these razor-focussed, meticulously plotted masterpieces, to having these messy, muddled feuds that had a horrible dark cloud hanging over them, filled with mad shoot tangents and rubbish attempts to kickstart feuds and promote matches that were never going to happen. Wonky feud with Hangman, awkward, stunted feud with Mox, a phenomenal angle when MJF returned completely flushed down the shitter when he overdosed on muffins, a triumphant return and potentially great feud with Ricky Starks completely undermined by shoot comments about The Elite, and then everything gets completely dropped before they even have their big PPV match because he scrapped backstage over some glass.

I didn’t dislike Punk’s output post- Revolution 2022 because, “I picked a side,” or because I allowed my opinion of him as a person to cloud my enjoyment of him as a performer. All this shit was directly affecting what was happening on-screen. Either he’d turned into a self-destructive nutter for real, or he played a meta/worked one to perfection on TV. Either way he went from the most enjoyable part of AEW’s TV, proving himself a genius in terms of booking his own stuff, to one of the most confusing, frustrating performers they had.

Those last few Collision matches went about twenty minutes too long, too. Go home, Phil. Both figuratively and literally.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Supremo

[Infinity Land]

In retrospect and even at the time. There was never any sign of Punk v. MJF happening anytime soon.

The Collision where he faced Ethan Page and there was the mystery of the bag. Nothing was teased or even really mentioned in the commentary.

Month later back on Collision when the Real World Title had been unveiled and he & Cole were challenging for the tag titles. Working against Punk's buddies FTR, still nothing.

Grand Slam tournament was about Roderick Strong, keeping that thread going, with the happy coincidence of Joe coming out as a solid title contender.

Maybe, just maybe, after WrestleDream and on the road to Full Gear they would do something with Punk and MJF.

[Loki]

On 9/3/2023 at 9:38 PM, Loki said:

Right, now we can hopefully all move on from Pip Brooks and his terrible attitude, and get back to some fun AEW wrestling.  The industry is better without CM Punk.

Oh Loki you naïve fool.

[Supremo]

“Loaded.”

 

[RedRooster]

Well, it's nice to see the best heel in the company appear on the flagship show for the first time in a while. Once the feud with Darby has wrapped up, I'd very much be in favour of an MJF/Christian feud in the near future. Christian is the kind of character who could really play into the MJF/Cole dynamic and create cracks in the friendship through his manipulative ways. Plus, it would just be fun to watch them interact. 

[Merzbow]

Well it's now confirmed that Jade has signed with the WWE, AEW dropped the ball so fucking hard there. I hope she kills it, she's a superstar.

https://www.espn.co.uk/wwe/story/_/id/38495601/former-aew-champion-jade-cargill-signs-wwe

[BomberPat]

I'm honestly not sure how much it's them dropping the ball as much as her being in a position to pick and choose her opportunities - she seemingly wanted to take an extended leave of absence after she dropped the TBS Title, and only came back to do the rematch and remove the proverbial asterisk from Statlander's reign with a clean loss. There were a lot of big matches left on the table for her, or as big as they get in AEW's women's division at least, but given that money doesn't seem to be the motivating factor, I imagine she'd made her mind up to leave and they did so on good terms.

I'd hazard a guess that she's recognised that WWE holds more prospects for springboarding into crossover success - and if AEW have dropped the ball on anything, it's on not doing everything they can to create those opportunities for her themselves.