Loki Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 I know you all are moist for Jade Cargill, and she’s got a great look, but every time I watch her matches I see an incredibly green, awkward performance which relies hugely on her opponent being experienced and talking her through. She has that habit of waiting looking hesitant for her opponent’s offence and she’s often a quarter of a second late to everything. I’m not against wrestlers learning on the job but I’ll not convinced she’s improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted August 12, 2022 Author Share Posted August 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, Loki said: I know you all are moist for Jade Cargill, and she’s got a great look, but every time I watch her matches I see an incredibly green, awkward performance which relies hugely on her opponent being experienced and talking her through. She has that habit of waiting looking hesitant for her opponent’s offence and she’s often a quarter of a second late to everything. I’m not against wrestlers learning on the job but I’ll not convinced she’s improving. For me - the reason I enjoy her the most is her confidence and genuine star quality. She's got that special aura about her which 99% of the women don't have. So yeah, she's not the best 'wrestler' but look at some of the ones that people consider to be great "wrestlers" like Ruby Soho - is she really that great? I think she's sloppy and boring most of the time. Thunder Rosa has been boring since being champion. Toni Storm? Again, ends up pretty boring to watch a lot of the time. Britt Baker.. well, she's just overexposed at this point, and she was always over more for her personality than her wrestling. If I had a choice between 1 Jade Cargill and 10 of these so called great womens wrestlers it'd be an easy choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said: So yeah, she's not the best 'wrestler' but look at some of the ones that people consider to be great "wrestlers" like Ruby Soho - is she really that great? I think she's sloppy and boring most of the time. Prime example of this is in the TBS Final (skip to 4:02) Whether Jade should be doing avalanche versions of moves with her limited experience is another talking point, but she’s been in the ring less than a year and she sits out perfectly on the bump. Ruby Soho, 11 years experience, takes it all on her knees and forearms and looks a rank amateur. Also notice the big “I’m ready now” nod she gives beforehand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Isn't that Jade's inexperience though? She's meant to flatten out Ruby so she lands properly, but just kind of drops her. Not that I'm defending Ruby Soho, she's been immensely disappointing in AEW. It makes you realise how much the WWE system flatters its wrestlers sometimes - good road agents, good booking, lots of help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted August 12, 2022 Author Share Posted August 12, 2022 Ruby's one of those ones where I think she's far more appreciated by the people in the industry itself than the fans. As if they all believe she's great and works hard and deserves success etc etc. But she's never been that over with those who buy the tickets.. It reminds me of some backstage stuff I'd seen with Tamina and how everyone was so happy for her when she won the tag titles with Natalya, and yet she's basically one of the most useless people they've ever had on the roster. Talk about someone who hasn't improved.. Anyway, there's definitely a divide there. I'd say Mercedes Martinez is probably another good example of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted August 12, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) Ruby Soho is proper rubbish and I think mainly got the job in AEW because she's popular with other wrestlers. Her ring work is crap and her gimmick (like all punk rock gimmicks) is phoney, one note shite. And yes Jade Cargill is green but just fucking LOOK at her! You have to push someone like her to the moon, regardless of how pony she is in the ring. Anyways I'm pretty bored of this AEW woemsn division talk. Let's be honest, womens wrestling in the US has pretty much always been a bit rubbish. WWE have only really turned the tide around recently because they built the greatest wrestling school in history and had the womens there working non-stop with all the best tools to actually become consistently good. AEW will never be able to compare to the women in WWE and giving them more TV time won't solve the problem. But to talk about something positive: how picture perfect was Brody King's fall from the apron landing perfectly in the coffin and the door closing on him! You could do that spot a hundred times over and never get it looking that perfect ever again. Could have so easily gone wrong or looked fake and cheesy but it was wonderful. Edited August 12, 2022 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69MeDon Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 12 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: Butt to talk about something positive: how picture perfect was Brody King's fall from the apron landing perfectly in the coffin and the door closing on him! You could do that spot a hundred times over and never get it looking that perfect ever again. Could have so easily gone wrong or looked fake and cheesy but it was wonderful. 100%. Been really impressed with Brody King lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted August 12, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2022 In WWE and AEW, Ruby's never really been booked to her strengths. Whether that's a top-down thing, or her not realising those strengths and wanting to work matches that don't play to them, I don't know. She's a great underdog babyface-in-peril, but her time in WWE has reduced a lot of her more naturalistic selling to big shocked NXT face, and most of the time in AEW she works the WWE TV match format of being a star with a small set of established moves, rather than spending most of the match getting beaten down and chucked all over the place, and playing for sympathy, which is where she actually excels. She's miscast as a bad-ass fight-all-comers type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted August 12, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2022 13 hours ago, RedRooster said: I think it's quite reasonable to suggest that Dynamite would be stronger if someone else was head booker. I mean, yeah, but only in the sense that "someone" is nebulous. There are, I'm sure, people out there who would be a better booker than Tony Khan, but I'd be surprised if there are more than 10 people for whom that would apply, and I couldn't name a single one. He's a very good booker, on the whole, with some decent sized weaknesses, like anyone else. Mileage varies on how much of a nuisance they are to you, but there have been long term compelling stories on AEW that haven't been present on WWE for years. Maybe impacts doing them, I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted August 12, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Duke said: There are, I'm sure, people out there who would be a better booker than Tony Khan, but I'd be surprised if there are more than 10 people for whom that would apply, and I couldn't name a single one. And there's the rub. Admittedly Tony Khan didn't fit this description pre-AEW, but there's not a pool out there of wrestling bookers with a proven track record in booking three hours of weekly TV. It's much, much easier to sit on the sidelines and critique someone else's booking than it is to do it yourself - and if you're someone like Cornette who has the experience to lend your opinions on booking some kind of credibility, and you're able to make money through those critiques, the last thing you want to do is actually start booking again and prove that the Emperor has no clothes. They have a vested interest in not taking the job, even if it was offered to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted August 12, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, BomberPat said: And there's the rub. Admittedly Tony Khan didn't fit this description pre-AEW, but there's not a pool out there of wrestling bookers with a proven track record in booking three hours of weekly TV. And the ones that do are hardly without flaws. I feel like when NJPW was at its high point with omega/okada etc and everyone used to rave about their shows they also complained about the refs looking stupid (I may be conflating two things there). WWE at its best still has a lot of stupidity, it's just about what the viewers can tolerate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 57 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said: It reminds me of some backstage stuff I'd seen with Tamina and how everyone was so happy for her when she won the tag titles with Natalya, and yet she's basically one of the most useless people they've ever had on the roster. Talk about someone who hasn't improved.. But even she got the “you deserve it” chants, clearly she was being held down beforehand. I mean, she wasn’t because she’s fucking useless and must have some proper dirt on someone in the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted August 12, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, BomberPat said: In WWE and AEW, Ruby's never really been booked to her strengths. Whether that's a top-down thing, or her not realising those strengths and wanting to work matches that don't play to them, I don't know. She's a great underdog babyface-in-peril I find this hard to believe because she's just too unlikeable to me to be sympathetic. There's no character there to want her to succeed. Underneath the embarrassing generic punk rock gimmick with textbook "stick out your tongue" pose what is there to root for? Compare her to someone like Willow Nightingale who isn't quite there in terms of in ring ability but just has a natural likeable charisma that makes it easy to get behind her (kw.jpeg) and Ruby just seems lacking in comparison. Thunder Rosa is fairly dodgy as a wrestler but she gets a big pop and fans will genuinely cheer for her because she feels real, while Ruby feels like a phoney. Actually all these qualities that make her a bad babyface could make her a pretty good heel one day. Edited August 12, 2022 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted August 12, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I find this hard to believe because she's just too unlikeable to me to be sympathetic. There's no character there to want her to succeed. Underneath the embarrassing generic punk rock gimmick with textbook "stick out your tongue" pose what is there to root for? That's sort of my point with the WWE-isms, though. She was a far more likeable and sympathetic wrestler when she wasn't just reduced to that kind of one-note mannerism, and when the "punk rock" thing was just a bit of colour, and not the be-all and end-all of her entire character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted August 12, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, BomberPat said: That's sort of my point with the WWE-isms, though. She was a far more likeable and sympathetic wrestler when she wasn't just reduced to that kind of one-note mannerism, and when the "punk rock" thing was just a bit of colour, and not the be-all and end-all of her entire character. When was this? Her work on the indies I presume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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