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wandshogun09

UFC 252: Miocic vs Cormier 3 - Aug 15 🇺🇸

Who wins and how?   

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I think it'll get pretty interesting once the Stipe/DC is over. The trilogy is awesome but its held up the development of the division. If DC goes and beats Stipe convincingly and puts a beating on him, you have to know the UFC are gonna wanna put Ngannou in for the next shot so we may even be looking at Ngannou/Blaydes 3 for the belt which seems the most unlikely fight ever. Id imagine the UFC will want to get the vacant belt slot filled asap if DC wins it.

If Stipe wins, just do Stipe/Ngannou 2 and the division rolls on. 

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I'll say this for Hardy. He makes me want to watch him. He makes me want to see Big Francis tee his head into the seats with a Ngannonball.

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4 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

I think it'll get pretty interesting once the Stipe/DC is over. The trilogy is awesome but its held up the development of the division. If DC goes and beats Stipe convincingly and puts a beating on him, you have to know the UFC are gonna wanna put Ngannou in for the next shot so we may even be looking at Ngannou/Blaydes 3 for the belt which seems the most unlikely fight ever. Id imagine the UFC will want to get the vacant belt slot filled asap if DC wins it.

If Stipe wins, just do Stipe/Ngannou 2 and the division rolls on. 

Rolls on with what though? If Ngannou beats Stipe then that’s another trilogy that needs settling. Cool. After that though, it’s either uninteresting challengers like Blaydes or rematches with ageing guys they’ve both already beaten. The rest like Gane, Nascimento, Spivak etc are way off at the moment but the lack of depth means they’ll probably get rushed up the ladder before they’re ready. It’s always been a funny old division that exists in its own bubble but now more than ever it’s in kind of a no man’s land where the old guard are phasing out but the new young crop of Heavies aren’t quite ready yet. The division will roll on, it always does. But beyond a potential Stipe vs Ngannou rematch there isn’t much to get excited about.

If anything, I think this Stipe vs DC trilogy has been a good thing. I can see why you’d think it’s held the division up but when you think about it, held it up from what? What has it blocked or delayed that’s worth getting excited about other than the Ngannou rematch? I think the delay makes that rematch more interesting because it’s given Ngannou time to really rebuild himself. If DC retired last year when he was supposed to we’d have probably already had Stipe-Francis 2 last summer. So Ngannou probably wouldn’t have got those JDS or Rozenstruik wins. That’s 2 extra training camps for him to improve and presumably work on weaknesses. I still favour Stipe if/when they eventually meet again but surely the delay has only given Ngannou a better chance.

Thinking about it, the best thing that could probably happen now is if Stipe beats DC, Ngannou beats Stipe, then we get Ngannou vs Miocic 3. That should keep the division ticking over for another year or so. And you’d hope some of the guys lower down the rankings and the newer Heavyweights will have had a breakthrough performance or two by then and established themselves as contenders.

If all else fails, throw more money at Brock. 

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yeh, im just thinking by the time the fight after DC/Stipe 3 has happened we are probably looking at mid-to-late 2021. By then some of the old guard may drop off and some new guys break that top 10. The top 10 seems to have the same names in it for 5 years

Heavyweight MMA fighters just have that habit of hanging around 😄 Gusty coming in was exciting and Werdum ruined that before leaving, JDS has looked finished a few times but bounces back, same for Overeem. These guys persevere like no other.

Edited by Egg Shen

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What would the interest be in Miocic Vs Jones? or is the Champ Vs Champ done to death at this point? 

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There’d definitely be interest in Miocic vs Jones. And before Jones had his most recent fallout with the UFC there was a lot of talk about Ngannou vs Jones. So, depending on how that went, maybe that would’ve been the first step towards the Stipe fight. Like if Jones schooled the next top Heavyweight contender in Ngannou, people would be clamouring for Stipe vs Jones.

Fuck knows what’s happening with Jones though. I’m sure he’ll be back but for the time being it doesn’t seem like he’ll be fighting anyone much less a Superfight. 

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10 minutes ago, SBD said:

What would the interest be in Miocic Vs Jones?

Pretty big. 

Barring Khabib vs Gaethje, it's probably the MMA fight I want to see most. 

Even if Miocic is possibly past his prime. 

Edited by jimufctna24

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I think at this stage, if Miocic can be considered past his prime, then so could Jones. There's no way that Jon Jones of 2011-2015 ends up going a combined fifteen rounds with Anthony Smith, Thiago Santos and Dominick Reyes. 

I'm not sure how Jon Jones could do at Heavyweight at this stage of his career, but I'm interested to find out. Possibly his best tool at HW would be that he is very good at making sure he barely gets hit, and when he does he rolls with it. It's a glancing shot a lot of the time. If he starts to lose those reactions a fraction more than he already has, then yes the heavies are slower than the LHW guys, but they also hit even harder. Does he really want to put himself in that spot? It's a damn intriguing prospect. 

Jon Jones still should cut through 90% of that division like a hot knife through butter. Not Stipe and Big Francis though. I'd have both of them to stop him early. I'm not sure we ever see Jones at Heavyweight either. If he was really interested, it should have happened by now with either Lesnar, DC, Stipe or Cain and it hasn't. He's right to ask for more money to do it, with it being such a risk for him. On the other hand, all four of those potential opponents would have been massive business for Jones, much bigger than anyone he could face at 205, bringing him in plenty of PPV points, yet he didn't seem fully convinced. 

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2 hours ago, WeeAl said:

Jon Jones still should cut through 90% of that division like a hot knife through butter. Not Stipe and Big Francis though. I'd have both of them to stop him early. I'm not sure we ever see Jones at Heavyweight either.

I'm not sure about Miocic. 

But I would pick Jones to beat Ngannou. I like Big Francis, and while I don't think he's a bum, I still have a sinking feeling that his recent resurgence says just as much about how crap Heavyweight MMA is as it does his own personal improvement. 

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20 hours ago, Carbomb said:

I'll say this for Hardy. He makes me want to watch him. He makes me want to see Big Francis tee his head into the seats with a Ngannonball.

The thing about Hardy is that at this point he's shown he's no mug. The lad can fight, which is what a lot of people hoped wouldn't be the case. He's rough around the edges and needs to work on his game, but he's obviously talented. 

Everyone thought he was gonna get crushed by Volkov, but it didn't work out that way. Sure, he wasn't really in the fight, but he could still come good.

21 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

I think it'll get pretty interesting once the Stipe/DC is over. The trilogy is awesome but its held up the development of the division. If DC goes and beats Stipe convincingly and puts a beating on him, you have to know the UFC are gonna wanna put Ngannou in for the next shot so we may even be looking at Ngannou/Blaydes 3 for the belt which seems the most unlikely fight ever. Id imagine the UFC will want to get the vacant belt slot filled asap if DC wins it.

If Stipe wins, just do Stipe/Ngannou 2 and the division rolls on. 

Come on man, how can you mention the possibility of Ngannou vs Blaydes 3 and "pretty interesting" in the same analysis? Imagine that fight for the heavyweight title? Fucking hell.

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I still think Hardy is cack. And it’s really not just because I don’t like the prick. When people talk about his potential and stuff I just don’t see it. He’s a bloated up footballer with dodgy cardio and KO power. Not saying it’s you David but I think some people want him to do good just so others are wrong about him. Which is an odd reason to root for a woman beater. 

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7 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

I still think Hardy is cack. And it’s really not just because I don’t like the prick. When people talk about his potential and stuff I just don’t see it. He’s a bloated up footballer with dodgy cardio and KO power. Not saying it’s you David but I think some people want him to do good just so others are wrong about him. Which is an odd reason to root for a woman beater. 

Thing is, like most dudes who accomplish what he has in a sport like the NFL, he's obviously an athlete. Dude is 6'5 and 265lbs. 

He actually rocked up pre-NFL draft at 281lbs and proceeded to run a 4.79 second 40 yard dash. Those kinds of numbers may not stand out too much in the NFL (although he does have a score that is above-average for guys in his position), but there's few athletes like that in the UFC heavyweight division. He pisses all over most fighters from that perspective.

Where he'll sink or swim is in his application and willingness to learn the sport. He has a reputation for lacking in application and attitude, which is what will likely end up costing him in MMA. He self-destructs by being a stupid twat.

But yeah, he's an arsehole. Not only has he got a history of domestic violence, but he's never really seemed like he regretted what he did. He went through the motions to do what he had to do in order to move on, but it's not hard to see he isn't really all that sorry.

I don't really want him to do good. I'm not rooting for him, but I think looking at him from a physical standpoint he has all the tools needed to make a run. 

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Hardy seems to be on the right track, the fact that hes got as far as he in such a short space of time is impressive, you have to give it to him.

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1 hour ago, David said:

 

Come on man, how can you mention the possibility of Ngannou vs Blaydes 3 and "pretty interesting" in the same analysis? Imagine that fight for the heavyweight title? Fucking hell.

Whilst i wasnt talking about that fight specifically being 'pretty interestling', fair point 😄

we'd better start getting used to the idea though because Curtis Blaydes keeps fucking winning.

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49 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

you have to give it to him.

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Sorry, not having it.

I’m not saying he doesn’t have the physical capability to maybe do well. I get the NFL shit. He’s more of an athlete than your average Heavyweight stand and banger, no doubt. But I don’t see him going far at all. And a lot of that, I think, will probably come down to things other than the physical aspect. The fucker’s had 9 pro fights and already he’s got himself disqualified once for an illegal knee and got a win overturned to a No Contest for that inhaler bollocks between rounds. That’s two blemishes on his record due to his own choices, brain farts or whatever. I mean, illegal knees happen from time to time and they’re nearly always accidental. But in Hardy’s case he was gassing horribly and Crowder seemed to be getting back in the fight, talking shit and gaining confidence and all that. When Hardy threw that knee, the timing of it just felt like he was looking for a way out. 

I accept it’s probably early days to write him off but I just don’t get the feeling he’s cut out for MMA. These two incidents plus his dodgy past before MMA, he just seems too unstable and more often than not a guy like that will unravel when things get rough in there. We’ve also seen very little of his ground game so far. And the bits we have seen...well, they weren’t good. That’s why I see him as just a slugger with crappy conditioning. He’s got a big punch. Can’t take that away from him. But that’s it. And most Heavyweights pack a punch. So far he’s shown no grappling, poor stamina despite his athletic background, and makes questionable decisions mid-fight. The grappling and conditioning can always be improved on but if his head isn’t right he probably won’t put the necessary work in on those areas anyway.

Lastly, on Ebb’s “got as far as he has in such a short space of time”, I’m not with that. The only thing he’s done that half impressed me was going the distance with Volkov but even then it was a last minute switch up for Volkov too and Volkov himself fought a very risk averse and conservative style. He didn’t really commit to going for a finish. It’s not like Hardy really dragged him to the scorecards or gave him any problems. Aside from that, he’s beat subpar to poor opposition. I get that it’s early in his career but people acting like he’s showing big potential beating the guys he’s beating is a bit much for me. On top of all that, his fights are nearly always the shittest thing on any card he’s on, he’s plodded about and not looked impressive at all against some very average opponents and, again, he’s already managed to have 2 controversies in just 6 fights in the UFC. Athleticism is all well and good but you can’t skate by on the past forever. I’m basing it on what I’m seeing in the cage now. And that’s a powerful but plodding, slow, mentally fragile gasser.

Summed up, fuck Greg Hardy. 

Edited by wandshogun09

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