UFC 244: Masvidal vs Diaz - Nov 2 🇺🇸

[Egg Shen]

Dave warming to my boy Jorge 👍🏻

I agree with that though. Jorge has hardly changed, its just more people are paying attention and giving him the platform, hes always spoken and acted the same really, hes one of the more authentic characters in the game.

The whole social media gimmick thing isnt even him, his manager mans Jorge's account and runs with all the catchphrases and hashtags, it was his idea to bust out the Scarface outfit, thats what managers are meant to do though. It works, people eat it all up. Its the most drawn out overnight success story in MMA history, the guy is arguably in the top 5 most popular fighters in the sport right now, maybe top 3, its insane.

[David]

I've always rated him as a standup fighter, and although he has a limited skillset he's good at what he does. He does seem to have clicked though and put some other aspects into his game. A bit like RDA did a while back. Sometimes it all just fits and you're good to go.

As far as the Scarface thing goes, I can give him a pass. He's of Cuban descent, was raised in Miami and is a hard-hitting dude. Like I said, it's not as if he's Irish pretending to be a Mexican or Colombian drug lord. That shit was ridiculous. McG was like that kid I knew at school who watched The Crow and started wearing a trench coat, slicking his hair back and sitting by himself down by the swings trying to look all mysterious.

[Carbomb]

As to the character, it's not so much that he's not legit, it's the fact that he's hamming it up so much. It's a bit like blaxploitation actor Fred Williamson - he was known to be a hardman in real life, but came across on screen as a bit pony. I'm more with wand that Masvidal's act is just pure cringe, when he probably wouldn't have to ham it up all that much to really put across how bad he actually is. Also, kicking off at anyone and everyone outside the ring is just scummy. I've never liked that, it's the behaviour of a cunt.

Regarding him as a fighter, I guess I've done a bit of a Luke Thomas - I don't mean that he's actually crap or anything; the guy fights in the UFC, and has beaten some of its more impressive names. But he's clearly not elite; as you say, his grappling will see him come unstuck against someone with a good grappling game, and I see that happening with Covington, Usman, or Tyron Woodley. And whilst he's clearly an excellent striker, he doesn't completely rule that area.

Funnily enough, I'm glad he beat Till, whom I've been vocal about before. I really hope he doesn't beat Usman, though. And I wouldn't mind if he put a beating on Covington, even in a losing effort; a Jones/Gusty 1 ending would be funny.

[wandshogun09]

It’s the Scarface thing I find most cringey for some reason. I get that people are lapping it up but it just seems too try-hard for me. 

I’ve got to admit though, he blew me away with this performance against Nate. Granted, Nate’s got his flaws but I thought Jorge looked better in every facet of the game on Saturday night. His striking has always been good but it looked sharper than ever and he was more varied in his attacks. And from the brief exchanges on the ground, he’s clearly putting some graft in on his grappling. His tactics were spot on as well with all the body shots and a bit more kicking. And despite me speculating before the fight that even as a veteran the occasion might get to him (first PPV main event, first ‘title’ fight, The Rock, Duran etc) there was none of that. Totally relaxed and confident he was going to do the job. He was really firing on all cylinders. It’s mad really how things have all clicked for him now at 34 or whatever he is. 

Perhaps most importantly, he seems to have found a balance now where he’s still being technical and relaxed in there but not to the point he’s letting rounds slip by as a result, which he was guilty of at times in the past. He’s noticeably upped the aggression this year and it’s paid off massively. Part of me wonders if he was getting fed up with fighting a couple of years ago. He’d had some close decisions go against him and actually seemed a bit disinterested in a couple of fights. Then he was inactive for all of 2018, and comes back in 2019 like a man possessed. I guess the combination of getting that big headline fight against Till plus the clock kind of ticking on his MMA career gave him a kick up the arse that it was now or never. 

Now we’re at a point where, unless something crazy happens in the next 8 weeks or so, Jorge Masvidal is probably my Fighter Of The Year. It’s either him or Israel Adesanya but he’s right up there. If you’d told me this time last year that I’d be saying that I’d have had you sectioned. Strange old game, MMA. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by wandshogun09

[Carbomb]

This is the thing: if it weren't for his behaviour, Masvidal would be my kind of fighter right now. I said it before recently that I prefer those fighters who claw their way to elite level, like RDA and Lawler, to the undefeated geniuses. Obviously, the geniuses are mesmerising to watch, but with the "mortals", it becomes more about seeing their journey take place and the character they show to keep going, letting defeats improve them rather than define them.

[Egg Shen]

Outside of wearing white suit though what exactly has Masvidal done that warrants cringe level status? It aint like he walks around spouting Scarface catchphrases and waving a toy gun, he just wore an iconic suit to a press conference.

[jimufctna24]

12 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

Outside of wearing white suit though what exactly has Masvidal done that warrants cringe level status? It aint like he walks around spouting Scarface catchphrases and waving a toy gun, he just wore an iconic suit to a press conference.

Some of his trash talk in the build-up to the Askren fight was a bit shit. 

[David]

8 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

Outside of wearing white suit though what exactly has Masvidal done that warrants cringe level status? It aint like he walks around spouting Scarface catchphrases and waving a toy gun, he just wore an iconic suit to a press conference.

Yeah, I don't think he's particularly cringe at all. He's not annoyingly over the top like Conor. 

20 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Also, kicking off at anyone and everyone outside the ring is just scummy. I've never liked that, it's the behaviour of a cunt.

When did he do that? Leon Edwards? That was once, and, well, Edwards deserved it. He was chatting shit and got called on it. Is Masvidal a gentleman? No, but he never claimed to be.

20 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Regarding him as a fighter, I guess I've done a bit of a Luke Thomas - I don't mean that he's actually crap or anything; the guy fights in the UFC, and has beaten some of its more impressive names. But he's clearly not elite; as you say, his grappling will see him come unstuck against someone with a good grappling game, and I see that happening with Covington, Usman, or Tyron Woodley. And whilst he's clearly an excellent striker, he doesn't completely rule that area.

How many guys are elite though? I can think of Jones & Khabib at the moment, and GSP. No one else. 

I think he'll come undone against a good grappler, but the truth is I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Usman or Covington attempt a few takedowns and aren't successful. What happens then? I could see him beating either guy in a fight in all honesty. 

18 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

Now we’re at a point where, unless something crazy happens in the next 8 weeks or so, Jorge Masvidal is probably my Fighter Of The Year. It’s either him or Israel Adesanya but he’s right up there. If you’d told me this time last year that I’d be saying that I’d have had you sectioned. Strange old game, MMA. 

He's my fighter of the year for sure.

Edited November 5, 2019 by David

[Egg Shen]

Masvidal goes Scarface-gimmick here, no one gave a toss 2 years ago. 

[David]

It's the flowing locks these days. Never underestimate the power of the hair. @Keith Houchen will back me up on that.

[Carbomb]

13 minutes ago, David said:

Yeah, I don't think he's particularly cringe at all. He's not annoyingly over the top like Conor. 

I accept it's a matter of opinion. I think he is cringe-worthy. Only reason why McG wasn't completely so was because he was occasionally funny. Plus he gave the impression he wasn't putting it on, that he really is that much of a skanger.

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When did he do that? Leon Edwards? That was once, and, well, Edwards deserved it. He was chatting shit and got called on it. Is Masvidal a gentleman? No, but he never claimed to be.

Also Bisping. 

And yeah - Edwards was chatting shit. You chat shit back, you don't try and clock him for it. You take it to the Octagon, or you keep your hands to yourself. Don't have to be a gentleman, you can at least be, y'know, a martial artist.

McGregor rightly got in trouble for attacking people outside the ring. Should've gone to jail, or at least been hit with a bigger fine, IMO. And Semtex is banned for life from the UFC for throwing a punch inside the Octagon but outside a fight.

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How many guys are elite though? I can think of Jones & Khabib at the moment, and GSP. No one else. 

We're drifting into Luke Thomas/Chael Sonnen territory here. I don't count only the undefeated prodigies as elite. I think Miocic, Holloway, Cejudo, and DJ are all elite, and Velasquez, Aldo, Barao, and Anderson were elite. For me, there's a fair bit of distance to cover between Jon Jones and Jorge Masvidal, within which the narrow band of "elite" would fall, while also excluding Masvidal.

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I think he'll come undone against a good grappler, but the truth is I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Usman or Covington attempt a few takedowns and aren't successful. What happens then? I could see him beating either guy in a fight in all honesty. 

He's my fighter of the year for sure.

I'll take your word for that. I haven't seen enough of his game to know how good his defensive wrestling is.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Carbomb

[David]

2 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

I accept it's a matter of opinion. I think he is cringe-worthy.

Well, I wouldn't advise you visit Miami any time soon. Or if you do, avoid any of the Cuban parts of town, as he's generally acting, talking, and carrying himself like a lot of the guys do there. He's a Cuban-American street kid from Miami who was part of the backyard bareknuckle boxing scene. I don't know what to tell you, it's not an act or a "gimmick." 

If he's a gimmick, then I guess we'd need to consider the likes of Kimbo Slice a gimmick as well. 

5 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Also Bisping.

Bisping tore up the Cuban flag. Rightly or wrongly, doing shit like that is gonna anger people. It was a risky move, and you run the risk of being called on it. He's since apologised and the issue is dead & buried.

[Keith Houchen]

11 minutes ago, David said:

It's the flowing locks these days. Never underestimate the power of the hair. @Keith Houchen will back me up on that.

[Egg Shen]

muckers

[Carbomb]

1 minute ago, David said:

Well, I wouldn't advise you visit Miami any time soon. Or if you do, avoid any of the Cuban parts of town, as he's generally acting, talking, and carrying himself like a lot of the guys do there. He's a Cuban-American street kid from Miami who was part of the backyard bareknuckle boxing scene. I don't know what to tell you, it's not an act or a "gimmick." 

If he's a gimmick, then I guess we'd need to consider the likes of Kimbo Slice a gimmick as well. 

Again: I'm not saying he's not legit. I'm saying his act is cringeworthy. Diaz is also legit, but he doesn't come across as cringeworthy (although a bit annoying). He comes across as overdone. Not sure else how to put it.

1 minute ago, David said:

Bisping tore up the Cuban flag. Rightly or wrongly, doing shit like that is gonna anger people. It was a risky move, and you run the risk of being called on it. He's since apologised and the issue is dead & buried.

Didn't know about that. Fair enough. A little surprised, though - would've thought a Cuban-American wouldn't have minded the Communist Cuban flag being torn up. You hear enough of them bitching about Castro on Radio Marti.