UFC 187: Cormier vs Rumble

[jimufctna24]

I do know that his All-American schtick, and his religious stuff doesn't appeal to me. I'm not doubting that he's a really good fighter by the way, just that he doesn't really make me want to tune in for some reason

That's very reasonable. Although I think he only churned out the religious stuff last night. 

 

David, you are reasonable enough to give him credit as a fighter. My point was that the critics that Weidman called out last night, were not really worth acknowledging. At the best it was pointless, at the worst it was self-indulgent.

 

The sort of fans who pay to watch Weidman, don't care what a small section of fans are complaining about. If anything, Weidman's complaints drew more attention to the twerps who question his credibility.

 

As I stated above, he is accepted by most of the fanbase.

[herbie747]

Wow - amazing show. Very happy for Arlovski - that was a jump out of the seat moment!

 

Did it annoy anyone else how they kept announcing the rankings? They called Vitor "the #3 ranked middleweight in the world" - but Jacare, Rockhold, and Weidman are all ahead of him - so doesn't that make him #4? They did this all night & it made no sense.

I know they do their rankings 3, 2, 1, C - but surely that means #3 is the 3rd contender, and not 3rd ranked in the world? That means you're always excluding the best guy!

[METAL ON METAL]

I do know that his All-American schtick, and his religious stuff doesn't appeal to me. I'm not doubting that he's a really good fighter by the way, just that he doesn't really make me want to tune in for some reason. I can say the same about Cormier as well, i'm not really sure why I feel indifferent towards him either. 

 

I guess there are just certain guys who don't appeal to me, and that's two of them. I have my favourites like everyone else.

 

Yeah, exactly the same for me. Tremendous fighter no doubt, but the whole 'America FUCK YEAH!' personality grates on me - admittedly less-so than utter dick Tim Kennedy did (though I suppose he had the marine validity). It's not even that I hate him or anything, just a general apathy towards him and I get the sense the image the UFC are trying to portray him as is just very off.

 

Maybe I just have a natural dislike of the general New Jersey brashness. Feel nothing for Al Iaquinta either.

 

RE: Cormier. I really like him with his analyst work but when it comes to fight time and the build-up, I can take him or leave him usually.

[Supremo]

How anyone can not love Cormier is beyond me.

 

 

Imagine the feast Dan has had to celebrate. Jesus.

[wandshogun09]

Weidman and Iaquinta are New Yorkers, MOM. The main New Jersey boys in the UFC are Frankie Edgar and Jim Miller. And I'm a big fan of both of them.

 

I love that whole camp myself. Serra and Longo can do no wrong in my eyes. Weidman is becoming a great champion to watch and he seems a good guy to me. I like Ragin Al as well, you better not boo him. And Aljamain Sterling looks promising.

 

Conor McGregor was everywhere last night.

 

With Chuck Liddell;

 

Mike Tyson;

 

And taking selfies with mate Arnold;

 

As you do.

 

That reminds me, how fucking awkward did Tyson and his missus look when the camera went on them during the PPV? They looked like they'd just had stern words.

[Supremo]

It's not exactly the same thing, but that moment when Weidman stood up after winning reminded me of when Cain Velasquez stood up after murdering Big Foot that time. Same exact feeling of, "fucking hell, this guy is terrifying. It's going to take something extra special to beat him."

 

Love those pics of Conor. Really hoping he gets Arnie to walk him to the cage against Aldo like he discussed in the documentary. "Who the fuck is Steven Seagal? Imagine walking out with the Terminator!"

 

But yeah, how good is this promo? Absolutely outstanding.

 

http://youtu.be/g4xewIFm8go

 

EDIT: Forgive me if this has already been addressed in the post-show analysis, but it struck me this morning how well timed this awesome event was coming off the back of Maywather vs. Pacquiao. If you consider how many people were crying about Manny vs. Floyd being boring and not the action-packed slug fest they (wrongly!) expected, then this show couldn't have come at a better time. In terms of action and excitement it delivered by the truck load. If I was the UFC that's definitely something I'd be pointing out and promoting. It'll only get a fraction of the amount of buys, sure, but in terms of delivering entertainment it blew the boxing out of the water.

[Egg Shen]

 

If Jones is out for a year or so i have no problem seeing DC/Bader. Can already see the hardcore's shit all over that fight but if Jones is out of the picture that is the next guy in line.

 

Bader is being considered a title contender after scoring decision wins over Anthony Perosh, Rafael Cavalcante, Ovince Saint Preux & Phil Davis. Man, is that so depressing.

 

I know both guys will go full tilt with their "beef" to try and get people worked up about what will undoubtedly be nothing more than a FOX level main event, but I doubt I'll be able to muster much excitement to see that one. Bader is the drizzling shits. seriously.

 

Fuck it, all is forgiven Bones! Please, get him reinstated and lets resume the natural order of things!

 

yep, it's not the most exciting of situations but given the state of the division Bader is the logical choice. No one else in the division is close to the kind of run that Bader is on at the moment. I know Bader's name draws groans from a lot of fans, i always has, but i've mentioned it before that i always like it when a guy who seemed destined for the mid-card, or gets labelled a gate-keeper breaks away from the pack and goes on a run against the odds.

 

Just watching the MMA Fighting post-fight show and they touched on something that bothered me after watching the show. Did anyone find Anthony Johnson's post-fight interview/press conference a little strange? Maybe it's reading too much into it, but Johnson just seemed to content with the defeat. He lacked any real emotion and just didn't seem to bothered about just losing one of the biggest fights of his life, it was almost like 'i lost, whatever'.

[David]

Honestly, I got the feeling that Rumble was beaten as soon as Cormier managed to withstand the initial barrage of punches. He seemed very "Vitor-esque" in that regard for some reason, as if Cormier's comments about taking punches from heavyweights in the build up made him doubt his ability to finish him.

 

It's just another case of styles making fights, and Cormier being all wrong for him. Rumble will always have a chance against anyone who stays on the feet against him, which is why I really wanted to see him face Jones. I don't think Jones is troubled in the slightest by wrestlers, he's too good to get dominated in that respect, but we've never really seen him face a heavy handed puncher like Rumble.

 

Luckily for Rumble, there aren't too many fighters at 205lbs who have the wrestling credentials and chin combination of Cormier, so he'll likely be lurking around that top three to five slot for a while yet. I just hope that whenever Jones returns and beats either Bader or Cormier that Rumble has flattened a few more opponents and we get to see what is the most interesting fight for Jones that's out there.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah it's really just Cormier and Jones who I think have the tools to shut down Rumble. I still think Gus has the skills to beat him with the right tactics, but it'd always be an uphill battle because Rumble has him outgunned in power. I think Rumble absolutely destroys everyone else, so he'll always be up there.

 

He's always been a bit off mentally though, hasn't he? I think everyone got kind of swept up in how scary he'd looked at 205 and how good the 'new Rumble' was. And he's definitely more suited to 205. But he's always been a frontrunner really, and it doesn't matter what weight class he's in, if the opponent won't go away and can grind him out, he seems to unravel.

 

The problem for the other 205ers is that you need a Cormier/Jones skill level to exploit that.

 

This talk of Bader just shows how thin 205 actually is. I agree with Ebb that Bader will likely get the shot simply because there's not really any other option right now. But with Jones being gone it just highlights the destruction he's put on the division. Say Jones is out for a year dealing with his issues - where are the next contenders coming from? We've been that wrapped up in the Jones, Cormier, Gus, Rumble series it's kind of hidden the fact that below those four, the division is in tatters. To the point they're going to have to give fucking Bader a shot.

 

After Cormier vs Bader, who's next if Jones still isn't back? Gus is injured again and coming off a loss. Rumble needs to rebuild. Shogun and Nog are closer to retirement than title contention. It'll have to be the Glover vs OSP winner, won't it? Cormier's title reign is actually going to suffer from the hangover of Jones' dominance. While Jones was able to run through a string of killers, Cormier's first two defences could be against Bader and OSP. Good fighters but it's so lacklustre compared to Jones' victim list.

 

When's Rashad due back? Cormier vs Rashad for the title is about the best we can hope for while we wait for Jones to "get his shit together" and Gus to heal up.

[David]

There was talk of Chael coming back, which may work at 205lbs I guess. With the division being so thin a few wins would put him back into contention, wouldn't it? I actually think he'd be an interesting proposition for Cormier, especially after he admitted to coming into the Jones fight all emotional and fired up. Imagine what Sonnen would be saying to him pre-fight?

 

When you look at the recent rankings for the 205lbs division across all of MMA there is a real dearth of talent.

[Egg Shen]

 

 

Luckily for Rumble, there aren't too many fighters at 205lbs who have the wrestling credentials and chin combination of Cormier, so he'll likely be lurking around that top three to five slot for a while yet.

Yeh, i agree with that.

 

I'd do Rumble-Manuwa next, guaranteed fireworks.

[wandshogun09]

icke83 was trying to post this from the weigh ins but was having problems...I'll just leave it here;

 

 

Weigh In Rogan strikes again! What the fuck is he doing? He's high as a kite, isn't he?

[David]

I'd do Rumble-Manuwa next, guaranteed fireworks.

 

Fuck, that would be an awesome fight!

[Slapnut]

When will this (and UFC shows in general) appear on catch up on the BT Sport app? I was hoping it would go up almost instantly but I've had to watch it on Dailymotion instead. I haven't got any way of watching it on TV so recording it isn't an option unfortunately.

[wandshogun09]

This a good read. Old Sports Illustrated piece by Loretta Hunt on Daniel Cormier just before he won the Strikeforce Grand Prix. Goes into the death of his daughter, the murder of his dad and his love of pro wrestling...

 

Daniel Cormier Jr. wants his father's attention and he wants it now.

 

The 14-month old toddler is defiantly throwing his toys, one by one, under his dad's chair as Cormier struggles to make out what the reporter is asking him over his son's gibberish-fueled tirade.

 

"He's 26 pounds already. He's huge," laughs Cormier (9-0), who takes on Josh Barnett (36-5) in the finals of Strikeforce's Heavyweight Grand Prix on Saturday in San Jose, Calif. (10 p.m. ET, Showtime). "We were at a sponsor's house the other day and he jumped off this ledge. The guy told me his older son doesn't even do that yet."

 

A proud papa indeed, but what's so striking about Cormier is how present he is despite a past riddled with heartbreaking storylines. One of the most wrenching happened nine years ago, in the midst of Cormier's preparation at Oklahoma State University for his second Olympic wrestling bid. That's when Cormier got the call no parent ever anticipates.

 

Cormier's 2-month-old infant daughter, Kaedyn, was with her mother visiting family that brutal Texas summer when her car's air conditioning stopped. She strapped Kaedyn properly into a baby seat in her best friend's car, and it was rear-ended by an 18-wheeler only a few minutes later. Kaedyn was the only passenger not to survive.

 

Former Strikeforce light heavyweight champion Muhammed "King Mo" Lawal roomed with Cormier during OSU's summer sessions and was with him at the time.

 

"All of a sudden his face changed and he started to cry. It's just one of those unbelievably awful moments that you never forget," said Lawal, who recently signed with Bellator Fighting Championships and TNA pro wrestling. "It's amazing how he was able to go on to the Olympics like he did, but I think his strong mental state is what gives him an edge over the 99.9 percent."

 

Today, the 33-year-old Cormier can talk about the tragedy openly. As a professional athlete, telling the story repeatedly over time has allowed him to reach a place of acceptance with what happened.

 

"For a long time, it was very hard for me to comprehend how something like that could happen," said Cormier, who began seeing a sports psychologist shortly after the accident. "But my mother constantly tells me that God will never give me more than I can handle and I believe her."

 

With Cormier, this adage has been tested again and again. Growing up in Lafayette, La., about 130 miles outside of New Orleans, Cormier felt profound loss for the first time at age seven.

 

Cormier's father had divorced his mom a few years prior and was with his new family on Thanksgiving when he got into a heated argument with his second wife's father, who shot and killed him in self defense. This loss was much easier to process, said Cormier, simply because he was young and had already learned to live without his absentee father.

 

"He was there for us sometimes, but my stepfather, Percy Benoit, was the one who actually raised me from age three," said Cormier. "I wish I hadn't lost my dad at such an early age, but I had a father and he took care of me."

 

However, a year after his father's death, Cormier's grandmother, one of his main caretakers, also died.

 

"That sucked because she was in my life every day," he said. "She had cancer and even as a young boy, I understood that I wasn't going to see her anymore."

 

Cormier's escape was watching pro wrestling on television. Today, his voice bubbles over with excitement as he recalls the undying love affair between his all-time WWE favorite, Randy "Macho Man" Savage, and Miss Elizabeth.

 

At age 10, Cormier could be found in front of the television, clicking between the analog channels, trying to decipher grainy images from a WWE pay-per-view through the static.

 

"If you turned it to just the right spot, you could get the audio," he said. "No real picture. Just static. But you could listen to it."

 

Years later, shortly after Cormier placed fourth at the 2004 Olympics, the WWE invited him to a couple of shows in Oklahoma City. Looking to recruit the 2001 NCAA runner-up, the WWE invited Cormier backstage, where he sat and watched the matches right behind the announcer's table and even shook Vince McMahon's hand. But fourth place was too close to an Olympic medal to stop, so Cormier declined their offer.

 

In 2008, five years after he'd lost his daughter, Cormier traveled with his team to Beijing for the summer games, but was pulled from competition by Olympic officials a day before his first match.

 

Wrestling had always been the easy part, said Cormier, but making weight was a messy war with his own body. Rather than lose weight gradually, Cormier often sweated out 20-30 pounds of water weight before competition to the point of dehydration.

 

"I'd hurry to my room and drink something like soup to get my stomach expanding," he said. "Then I'd get sick and vomit and poop -- I was just getting sick from all the liquids I was pouring into me. But if I weighed in at four, around six or seven o'clock I'd start to feel better."

 

Cormier's purging routine caught up to him at the worst possible time, as he stepped off the Olympic scale in front of officials.

 

"When I went to rehydrate myself, my body started doing weird things," recalled Cormier. "I was throwing up everywhere. I started cramping really bad. Then, I couldn't walk."

 

Cormier was diagnosed with kidney failure and couldn't get cleared to train for an entire year, which ended his amateur wrestling career. Luckily, he got the opportunity to train with the American Kickboxing Academy in 2009 and after a number of back-and-forth trips from Oklahoma, moved to San Jose in 2010 and joined the team full-time.

 

Cormier's weight issues have followed him into mixed martial arts. Cormier, who weighs in around 235 pounds, regularly faces opponents 30-50 pounds heavier than him and his five-foot-eleven stature is below the average height for the division. Barnett, a former UFC champion, is six-foot-three, weighed 261 pounds before his semifinal win over Sergei Kharitonov last September and has thighs like tree trunks.

 

Many have offered Cormier the advice to whittle down a bit to the 205-pound division (he wrestled at 211.5 pounds), but the 2008 debacle still haunts him.

 

"It's scary because I saw something on this football player in Tulsa who was boxing and he got severely dehydrated, started cramping, started getting the same [symptoms] that I had, and died," said Cormier. "Listen, I'm a clear thinker and I know that I carry some extra fat and I could probably get to 205 if I needed to. But it would have to be a total lifestyle change. I just can't do it the wrong way anymore."

 

At the moment, it doesn't sound like Cormier's looking for any changes, On March 4, baby sister Marquita joined Daniel Jr. and his parents in San Jose. At his AKA gym, Cormier has surpassed even the loftiest expectations of his coaches, emerging from his wrestling facade as a surprisingly heavy-handed striker. Cormier has close relationships with Lawal and Strikeforce middleweight champion Luke Rockhold, who, along with another rotating teammate, call themselves "The Four Horsemen" after the popular 1980's pro wrestling alliance helmed by another Cormier favorite, Ric Flair.

 

"He's a leader, a helper, he has a sense of humor and likes to play pranks," said Lawal, who reunited with Cormier at AKA last year. "But when it's time to get serious and be a coach or a competitor, that switch flips."

 

So impenetrable is Cormier's psyche, he's hardly noticed that he'll be the David to Barnett's Goliath on Saturday. Size is an inconsequential detail when you've been conditioned to overcome and win your entire life. Like mom says, God never gives you more than you can handle.

 

"All the things I went through; it's what drives me nowadays. She's my motivation," said Cormier. "I compete for people who have lost with me. I think that's why I can compete as well as I have been to this point because I see things in perspective."

What a story. It's amazing that he's been mentally strong enough to keep focused on his career goals with all his setbacks, both personally and professionally. You really could script a film based on his life.