Paid Members JNLister Posted January 21, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted January 21, 2015 Topic inspired by somebody posing the question "Have there ever been two ***** matches on the same show?" to which the answer is either "That's not a valid question because the answer is inherently subjective" or "On Meltzer's ratings, nope." Â Anyhow, while there's a bunch of shows with multiple good matches, what's been the one with the greatest 1-2 punch? I'll leave this open for a week or so, or until it peters out, then we'll switch up to best 3 on one show and so on, which may be interesting in how it changes what type of shows are mentioned. Â A few initial thoughts: Â New Japan's recent Dome Show with Nakamura-Ibushi and Tanahashi-Okada reminded me to finally get round to starting this topic. Historically the Super J Cup with Sasuke-Liger and Sasuke-Benoit springs to mind, though arguably at least one of those was "really good" rather than "all time great." I'm sure there's a few nights in recent G1s that could be contenders. Â All Japan's an odd one as it's usually all about the main event and the best you could hope for is a strong supporting bout. Â With WCW and ECW, it feels like its a case of the great shows being ones with several very good matches but not all top-notch. The classic bouts like Flair-Steamboats or War Games usually had relatively weak undercards. Â WrestleMania is an obvious source for WWE, especially in the modern "multiple main event" era. Ones that come to mind are 10 with Hart-Owen and Ramon-Michaels, 17 with Rock-Austin and TLC (Benoit-Angle was very good, but was a 'first in the series' type of match), and 20 with the main event being backed by the undersung Guerrero-Benoit. Â All that said, I think there's a strong case that the WWE answer is actually SummerSlam 2013 with Punk-Lesnar and Bryan-Cena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 To me its mania 10 with the ladder match and Bret/Owen. Maybe IYH:Canadian Stampede with the TAKA/the Great Susake and 10 Man Tag main event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Onyx2 Posted January 21, 2015 Awards Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2015 WrestleMania III - Steamboat / Savage and Hogan / Andre? Both completely different ends of the "sports entertainment" spectrum but both great. Â Royal Rumble 1992 - tag match and Rumble match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undefeated Steak Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Good question and some really good answer already! I'm sure air raid will offer some more Japanese shows. Â My first few picks would have been the recent WK9, WMX7 and Summerslam 2013... Â Wrestlemania 24 had Undertaker vs Edge and Flair vs HBK. Summerslam 2002 had Triple H vs HBK and Rock vs Lesnar although the latter might not be considered great by everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofSports Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Having checked my own ratings for Japanese shows & hence this is purely my opinion, I'd have to say no. As mentioned; Super J-Cup (I tend to agree with JNLister on that), DreamSlam & possibly various NJPW & NOAH events could be considered & may have come close in some people's eyes, but on reflection I'd stick with no. Can't comment on non-Japanese cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted January 21, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted January 21, 2015 Nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted January 21, 2015 Author Paid Members Share Posted January 21, 2015 Was just going to say I'd forgotten about AJW. I think the best offering there might be a bit of a cheat as it's the 1993 tag tournament where Hokuto & Toyota wrestled Inoue & Yamada in the last round robin match, then immediately wrestled again in the final as the top two scoring teams, both matches being great. Â Taking a quick look through Meltzer's ratings just for the sake of argument, WrestleMania X is the only US show where he's gone for a ***** and a ****3/4 on the same show. For Japan (up to 2005) he's got Super J Cup and that's it. That said, he has quite a few Japan shows with a ***** and a *****1/2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsey713 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Id say Summerslam 2002 with Angle Mysterio and HBK HHH. And Money in the Bank 2011 with Punk Cena and the Smackdown MITB match that Daniel Bryan won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Dem Wanz Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I thought he'd rated both Owen v Bret and Razor v Shawn as *****? Â Anyway I'd probably say no according to my own opinion, one shout that I've not seen so far that would be close is Wrestlemania 23 with those bloody brilliant title matches in HBK/Cena and Batista/Taker along with an excellent MITB match also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted January 21, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted January 21, 2015 Only because my Spidey Sense tingled..... Â Good question and some really good answer already! I'm sure air raid will offer some more Japanese shows. Â I'll be as disciplined as I can and only go with the shows where both the matches in question TRULY knocked my socks off.... Â Noah's "Destiny" PPV in 2005 featured two mind-blowing yet completely different matches, with Yoshinobu Kanemaru v KENTA for the junior belt being the state-of-the-art stuff, with just the right number of twists to make me forget that it was totally obvious who was winning, and then Kenta Kobashi v Kensuke Sasaki with the "bulls colliding" heavyweight collision. Some people might write that off as being "just chops and lariats" or owing a great dose of the excitement to the spectacle and the atmosphere, but I don't give a shit, it was a total adrenaline rush to me from start to finish. Â The penultimate day of the 2013 G1 had four consecutive matches that blew my mind, two bulls smashing each other in Makabe/Ishii (which literally left me speechless on the day), Ibushi/MiSu which was a compelling clash of styles, a really exciting Naito/Nakamura match (possibly even better than the 2011 final) and then the usual awesome match between Tanahashi and Okada. Â PERSONALLY I thought that Goto/Shibata at WK8 was absolutely first class, and I'd take the Tana/Nakamura main event as the "other" of the two to pick as I thought it was sublime, although Okada/Naito (though seemingly not everyone's cup of tea) ran it close. Â Last year's G1 Finals day featured two belters with Styles/Tanahashi and Okada/Nakamura, although a lot of New Japan fans will probably end up forgetting just how good the former was because their title match in October was even better. Â Plus the file marked "nobody else has seen it," Noah's August 2012 Korakuen show featured two matches that blew me away, Go Shiozaki vs Kento Miyahara which is a quintessential veteran vs newcomer "is that all you got, son?" gutcheck match for the latter, followed by KENTA vs Atsushi Kotoge which was one of the most shocking explosions of violence (which settles down eventually into an awesome match) from virtually the opening bell, at which point Kotoge drops the nut on KENTA, busting him open and sending him into a psychotic rage. Â And a couple of others, from WAAAAAAY back when I thought ROH was good, there were a few shows where the Noah lads helped build some great one-twos (if you like that type of match, as I did)Â - Final Battle 2005 (Danielson vs Marufuji, ROH title and KENTA vs Low Ki, GHC junior title) and Glory By Honor V Night 2 (Marufuji vs McGuinness, GHC heavyweight title and Danielson vs KENTA, ROH title). Â Finally, the ending of Unified spoiled me for live shows for a while as I thought Briscoes vs Aries & Strong and then Danielson vs McGuinness were utterly compelling matches that made my heart race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Culk Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Agree with a lot of what's been said already. Another random one I'll throw into the hat is TNA Turning Point 2009. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying either match was the full monty on snowflakes. However, Angle v Wolfe and Styles v Daniels v Joe were a belting pair of matches. This was even more remarkable given this show was a rare hidden gem in amongst TNA's years long run of putting on average to bad wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 21, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted January 21, 2015 I thought he'd rated both Owen v Bret and Razor v Shawn as *****? Â Â Nah, he gave the full five snowflakes to Bret & Owen's match at Summerslam, not Mania X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Seldom used account out of mothballs....  There's not much I'd add to my good friend air_raid's input but the the 2013 G1 in Osaka had both Ishii/Shibata (which Meltzer gave the full monty I believe) and Nakamura/Ibushi pt 1. A match so good they did it again at WK9 without the need for any kind of build whatsoever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 21, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted January 21, 2015 WM10 would be my answer. Â WM17 has the excellent triple threat tag team ladder match and the superb Austin/Rock main event. Â Always loved Harts/Demos and the Rude/Warrior cage match from SummerSlam 90 too. Both well over four stars imo. Â What was the NOAH event in 2004 that had the amazing Akiyama/Kobashi match and a fantastic Liger JH match underneath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraserbee Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 How about Wrestlewar 1992? The famous War Games match is the classic everyone remembers but Pillman vs Zenk is one of my favourites - great match with a really effective story of former partners knowing each other's moves. The Steiners match with Fujinami and Izuka was really good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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