Was the Invasion angle always destined to fail?

[Reznor]

 

But for Vince, hindsight makes it evident that what he wanted out of it was something entirely different to the fans. The acquisition of WCW was designed to result in a distraction in storylines for a few months with their inevitable burial at the end, a bit of a business boost (including having a free run with no competition in the future), and having his ego massaged by winning the war so he'd be able to pose on DVD covers 13 years later as the man who destroyed WCW.

That wasn't what he wanted out of it at all. He wanted to run WCW as its own brand (probably with Triple H as the top guy), but couldn't get any kind of television for it and then, after the Booker vs Bagwell flop, decided to jack in any idea of WCW continuing and just have them be a heel faction.

 

It's very difficult to believe he was in any way serious about WCW continuing. Bottom line, if he genuinely wanted to run WCW as it's own brand, he'd have found a way to run WCW as it's own brand, and they'd still be here today. Where there's a will there's a way. 

 

If his mind was swayed by the inevitable crowd reception to two bad wrestlers doing what comes naturally to them, it tells you all you need to know about his sincerity and commitment to the idea in the first place. There's no way that an instance of such insignificance is elevated to become a decisive factor in such a historic, far-reaching and economically important decision affecting the whole future landscape of the business. 

 

The lack of attention to almost anything WCW-related shone through during that Invasion period. Even down to seemingly trivial things. Like that unsightly wCw logo for example, which looked to have been made by a very inept summer student. In a company which knew the importance & impact of production, graphics, brandings etc, there's no way in hell that crest would be OK'd for anything they were remotely serious about or had any intention of being in existence in the longer term.

[tiger_rick]

 

But for Vince, hindsight makes it evident that what he wanted out of it was something entirely different to the fans. The acquisition of WCW was designed to result in a distraction in storylines for a few months with their inevitable burial at the end, a bit of a business boost (including having a free run with no competition in the future), and having his ego massaged by winning the war so he'd be able to pose on DVD covers 13 years later as the man who destroyed WCW.

That wasn't what he wanted out of it at all. He wanted to run WCW as its own brand (probably with Triple H as the top guy), but couldn't get any kind of television for it and then, after the Booker vs Bagwell flop, decided to jack in any idea of WCW continuing and just have them be a heel faction.

 

I agree. I think if he ever answered the question honestly, he'd see it as something with potential that never came off in just the way we do. I'm not convinced he wanted to ruin it for the sake of it. Not convinced it would have hurt him to have to though!

[Sphinx]

Watching the match back, Buff's fitness and health issues weren't the biggest problems. There was no story, no reason for anything, botches, the lot. You'd think being in the first WCW title match on Raw they'd have something in mind but it looks so shit that it looks as though it's improvised.

 

Didn't realise the crowd booed it so much and chanted 'boring'. If he didn't have it in mind before, Vince will have had it in his mind that the crowd don't care for WCW and want to see WWF batter them from that point.

 

It was only relatively recently that I found out there was an episode of WCW SmackDown. The name looks odd.

 

As for the logo, the logo they used from '99 was shite too, even worse. But why did WWE create a new logo and not use the classic WCW logo?

[Reznor]

As for the logo, the logo they used from '99 was shite too, even worse. 

Absolutely. It was worse. I was going to mention that as i was typing, but I was going on a bit and figured it was best not to ramble off on tangents (as I often do)

 

That logo and their whole April '99 set was just a damning indictment of latter day WCW's all-round utter ineptitude.

[Loki]

The only reason you book Bagwell v Booker T is because you want to give it every chance to fail.  Clearly some in the company were pushing for WCW to have their own show, and those opposed managed to fuck it over by getting Bagwell into that match.  It just cemented what Vince was already thinking.

[LaGoosh]

Wasn't the original plan Lance Storm vs Booker T but they changed it to Bagwell because Vince thought he had more star power? That's what that miserable git Lance Storm says anyway.

[ColinBollocks]

Every once in a while I go back to check the DDP reveal. It may be the biggest pop I've ever heard. I wasn't even the biggest fan of DDP, but my cock went a bit tingly when he showed up.

 

Then he spent a PPV licking his teeth.

 

Even if the Turner contracts weren't an issue, WWE made it very clear they had no interest in showing some arse for the manky WCW lot.

[King Pitcos]

 

 

But for Vince, hindsight makes it evident that what he wanted out of it was something entirely different to the fans. The acquisition of WCW was designed to result in a distraction in storylines for a few months with their inevitable burial at the end, a bit of a business boost (including having a free run with no competition in the future), and having his ego massaged by winning the war so he'd be able to pose on DVD covers 13 years later as the man who destroyed WCW.

That wasn't what he wanted out of it at all. He wanted to run WCW as its own brand (probably with Triple H as the top guy), but couldn't get any kind of television for it and then, after the Booker vs Bagwell flop, decided to jack in any idea of WCW continuing and just have them be a heel faction.

 

It's very difficult to believe he was in any way serious about WCW continuing. Bottom line, if he genuinely wanted to run WCW as it's own brand, he'd have found a way to run WCW as it's own brand, and they'd still be here today. Where there's a will there's a way. 

Who won the XFL last year? Why don't more of the recent WBF champions cross over to wrestling?

 

Just because Vince McMahon wants to do something doesn't mean it works. The TV channels didn't want WCW -- they had shows booked under the WCW brand that they had to cancel when it wasn't happening. He had no platform for it, and then they did the Raw main event and the best WCW had to offer was a disgrace so it wasn't worth pursuing.

[herbie747]

Why was WCW production always so shit? They had money. It always looked gloomy, grey, and under-lit compared to WWF. Even TNA (on less money) looks far superior to WCW from a lighting & set perspective. 

[HeavyT]

Why was WCW production always so shit? They had money. It always looked gloomy, grey, and under-lit compared to WWF. Even TNA (on less money) looks far superior to WCW from a lighting & set perspesctive

I dont think they had the budget. I liked it though, better than the Impact Zone

[Reznor]

Who won the XFL last year? Why don't more of the recent WBF champions cross over to wrestling?

 

Just because Vince McMahon wants to do something doesn't mean it works.

Indeed, but the more pertinent point from that comparison is that when Vince McMahon wants to do something, he at least makes it happen and gives it a chance to fail. The "still be here today" comment is obviously supposition, but it's an opinion based on the fact that he's a wrestler promoter, it's his bread and butter, and he doesn't often fail at that game.

 

We're only talking about getting a new wrestling programme started up here (and it would be a minor one initially with their desperate lack of star power). It's hardly some plunge into the unknown with much risk, like the short lived enterprises you mentioned, or the Network. If the WCW brand was toxic at the time, there was always ways around it, for example, temporary downsizing to a smaller network or a less prime-time slot to re-establish themselves. Or making obvious that it's part of the WWF by advertisement, branding, logos etc.  

 

I'm not even precious about the name either. They could've called it whatever they wanted, so long as it featured the WCW guys, offered an alternative similar to old WCW, and was widely considered to be WCW's successor. It may well have been for valid reasons, but Vince's decisions and actions during that period can only suggest he was never particularly sold on the idea of re-starting WCW as a separate entity.

[Reznor]

 

Why was WCW production always so shit? They had money. It always looked gloomy, grey, and under-lit compared to WWF. Even TNA (on less money) looks far superior to WCW from a lighting & set perspesctive

I dont think they had the budget. I liked it though, better than the Impact Zone

 

I think it was more to do with just a general neglect of presentation and aesthetics. Their budgets were huge, they must've had the money to make a decent arena set up, hire in teams who made shit hot graphics, presentation packages, montages etc. But they just didn't appear to care much for that side of things. It carried over into other things like wrestlers with little character definition, crap ring attires, and even music. (not that there was no great characters, attires or themes).

 

I guess they just hadn't grasped the importance of all that, like the WWF did. Or they deliberately just avoided focussing on it to differentiate themselves from the WWF. Probably the former. Some of their PPV sets were cool though, as tacky and cheap looking as they were - and their variety of locations always gave them one over the WWF imo.

[FireBrand]

a) What were you thinking/hoping for when the purchase was announced?

 

I was pissed off that WCW was no more but I also thought that it could be kept alive in some form. I though we would see an epic battle between father and son which along the way will at least provide some victorys for guys like Sting, Goldberg and Steiner over WWE names I have never really cared for such as Undertaker and Triple H.

 

b) What was the moment the angle died for you?

 

The moment my favourite wrestler Booker T was basicly destroyed in one sentence by The Rock. I know The Rock was and is on another level to Booker T but by saying "Who are you" to the highest profile name WCW had left you effectivley killed the spearhead of the whole operation.

I don't know if Rock was told to say that or it was his idea but for the sake of the angle it was so utterly fuck witted my faith went out of the story from there. Oh Angle getting sprayed with milk like a Frankie Goes to Hollywood music video and Stone Colds defection did not help ethier.
 

 

c) What was your personal high point, if any?

 

Quite early on really, because bare in mind WCW were given barely anything to work with, they werenever truely a threat and they really didn't have any meaningfull vicotries over WWF talent. It was as Vince always set it out to be a huge WCW funeral.

However I did enjoy the first random attacks on WWF wrestlers by WCW talent. At that point it was if there was something worth building towards and sometimes soon WCW were about to rip into the WWF.

[King Pitcos]

If the WCW brand was toxic at the time, there was always ways around it, for example, temporary downsizing to a smaller network or a less prime-time slot to re-establish themselves.

And taped it when? If you're proposing its own TV tapings, then the TV deal would have had to cover those costs -- and Vince was unable to get one, which is why the WCW relaunch didn't happen.

 

If you're proposing it being taped before Raw or Smackdown, your first problem is that the fanwanktasy that leads to the desire in the first place (the "WCW guys, offered an alternative similar to old WCW, and was widely considered to be WCW's successor" bit) would reject it when it's got the Smackdown fist on the stage the entire time.

 

Plus, the pre-Raw/Smackdown shite that was being taped at the time, whether it was Heat or Metal or whatever, was stuff that was already contracted and being paid for. Adding another hour onto the tapings risks burning out your fans on more shite they don't care about. Booker T and co were better served being beaten on Raw than they would have been trading wins on a pathetic sub-Velocity thing on a channel nobody's ever heard of. Which would have been impossible anyway, because they had an exclusive contract with Viacom that stopped them producing content for non-Viacom networks, and Viacom didn't want a WCW show.

[Vamp]

I liked the WCW aesthetic. Not entirely sure why.