UFC 169: Barao vs Faber 2

[Rey_Piste]

Even if Barao is on top Faber's still got that nasty guillotine of his, but I think that's bound to be something that Baroa will be wary of and will be training in how to avoid and escape it.

[jimufctna24]

Pretty much. I think Faber is at his absolute best right now so if he was ever going to win UFC gold, now is probably his best chance. But the problem is I don't think his absolute best is as good as Barao's absolute best.

See, this is where a point of contention arises. As it has been mentioned, in relation to Macdonald who both faced, Faber did perform better. Both got a stoppage, but with Barao, Macdonald got into the fight, and even landed some meaningful stuff and went a good few rounds. Faber just mauled Macdonald, just outclassed him. Styles do make fights, and fighters have off-nights, but still there was a sizable difference in how both fared against Macdonald.

 

There is no debate who is the more diverse striker, but Faber is now a power boxer who lands with a lot more meaning than he did 2 and a half years ago. He always had the power if you look back, but was too one dimensional a striker to get much going when facing the Aldo's and Barao's of the world. Plus, Faber has not lost his Octagon savvy. he controlled his previous opponents really well and showed he can submit guys and go the distance.

 

I would argue the class he has faced the past 18 months is higher than the WEC class he ruled over, other than a young and unseasoned Cruz who did he really beat? Jeff Curran and Fernandes in only his 2nd pro fight and a ancient Jens Pulver. The past 4 fights he has cruised past legit top 10 talent, not just beat but cruised. I remember the Jorgenson fight he won at a canter, he was very comfortable with his skills.

 

Barao I do rate, but I also have questions, even despite their first outing. He has looked impressive as of late, knocking off all that he has faced, but I am not sure he has faced a fighter as seasoned and well equipped as a 2014 Faber. Since the first meeting both have faced a similar standard of class, and both have impressed equally. The reach factor as stated is the key point, this fight will be about distance. If Faber can get inside and land like he did with Macdonald we could see a modest upset, we could even see a Faber points win if he does get inside if he mixes up his takedowns.

 

I am picking Barao, but it is a 65/35 fight, it would not be a absolute shock of Faber won.

[Egg Shen]

I think Faber just has to make it a messy fight, i need to rewatch the Barao fight but in the Aldo fight, Faber made the mistake of being too conservative, he stayed on the outside and allowed Aldo to goto work on his legs, he was fucked after that. Faber's always at his best when shit starts happening and fights get scrappy, he's always been very unconventional and that's one of his strong points. Considering Faber's dropped 3 straight title fights, i think he needs to go in there and just throw caution to the wind.

[Egg Shen]

nice to see the ol' UKFF'ers showing Frank Mir some love in the poll

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Considering Faber's dropped 3 straight title fights, i think he needs to go in there and just throw caution to the wind.

Faber agrees with you. Recent interview from MMAJunkie:

 

"I think he'll probably try to do the same thing he did last time to me, which slowed the pace down, tit for tat standing, and get a couple more kicks and a couple more punches landed," Faber said. "But I'm going to try to make this a lot more intense fight. I hate being in fights that aren't super exciting, and I'm going to try to make this as exciting as possible and get the finish... I want to pick the pace up and get in his face. I want to make it a fight that we both have to get a little dirty."

 

The more I thought about it, if Faber really carries this mentality into the fight, I can really see Faber getting a KO/TKO stoppage. He believes he's on the same level as Barao, and wants to make it a dogfight. Considering the way he pinballed McDonald in his last fight, Faber could definitely punch his way to victory. And from what we've seen, Barao is a very slick BJJ practitioner, I know we haven't seen a great deal of work from his back, but based on what we've seen I think he'd be very fluid there, I wouldn't fancy going to the ground with him too much. I'd like to see clinches and dirty boxing from Faber, eliminate the leg kick distance and blast him against the cage. Whatever he does, the key is taking the kicks away.

[Heatseeker]

I still love you Frank Mir.

 

I was pretty bummed to hear the news of Cruz however I can't lie - Faber/Barao 2 is a much more exciting fight for me especially after Faber destroyed MacDonald.

[Bus Surfer]

Just a question... How comes the 135lb title is headlining this show? If there's 2 title fights, they usually go with the heaviest one on last don't they?

[lambyUK]

Just a question... How comes the 135lb title is headlining this show? If there's 2 title fights, they usually go with the heaviest one on last don't they?

 

That's an interesting question Silky. I'm guessing initially the 135lb title was headlining as it was advertised as a champion vs champion unification bout. But you're right, the heaviest belt normally headlines.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, I'm assuming the 135 fight was on top because it was billed as a champion vs champion unification fight. And even now, with Faber in there, he's probably the biggest name of the four men in the two title fights. So I suppose it makes sense to keep that fight as main event.

 

I don't think it should be a set thing anyway to be honest. There's no rule that says the heavier weight title fight should always go on last. It should depend on the fight. Like if we had a card with say, Johny Hendricks vs Tyron Woodley for the WW title and Anthony Pettis vs Jose Aldo for the LW title - to me there's no question you go with Pettis vs Aldo on last. Just whichever is the sexier fight I'd say.

 

They'd never do it because they bum the heavyweights but if we got a double header of Cain vs Werdum and Weidman vs Belfort, I'd have the middleweights on last there as well.

 

And they've done it before. GSP vs Hughes 2 headlined over the heavyweight title fight of Sylvia vs Monson back at UFC 65. That turned out to be a wise move.

 

It doesn't really matter I suppose but it's really only the done thing out of habit anyway. Certain fights deserve higher billing regardless of weight. And in this case, there'll probably be more interest in Barao vs Faber than there is in Aldo vs Lamas, right or wrong. Just because Faber is involved and Lamas isn't that well known outside the hardcore fans.

 

Just to touch on something Jim said;

See, this is where a point of contention arises. As it has been mentioned, in relation to Macdonald who both faced, Faber did perform better. Both got a stoppage, but with Barao, Macdonald got into the fight, and even landed some meaningful stuff and went a good few rounds. Faber just mauled Macdonald, just outclassed him. Styles do make fights, and fighters have off-nights, but still there was a sizable difference in how both fared against Macdonald.

 

This is true but it doesn't mean much at all, in my opinion. I don't really read much into the common opponent thing. Faber beat McDonald more impressively no doubt. But look at another common opponent they had - Eddie Wineland. Faber went to a decision with Wineland and looked fairly ordinary by his standards. When Barao fought Wineland he stopped him with a spin kick to the neck.

 

The phrase 'styles make fights' is an overused cliche, but its very true, I think. I've said it before but look at the Wanderlei Silva-Chris Leben-Brian Stann triangle;

 

Leben KO'd Wandy, but

Stann KO'd Leben, but

Wandy KO'd Stann

 

Guys match up different.

 

Like I said, and I think Ebb, I think this is going to come down to Faber's ability to make it a dirty kind of fight. If he can get on the inside and rough Barao up with elbows and mix in some takedowns and ground striking, I could see him taking a decision. Maybe even stopping Barao late if he can wear on him in the early rounds. If he can't do that he'll be forced to play the outside game and we saw what happened last time. Faber's definitely improved his striking but I don't think he's improved enough to be able to get the better of Barao in that kind of fight.

 

I like the sound of what Faber's saying though. I thought the first fight was alright myself. The crowd shat on it because they'd sat through three cack fights in a row before that. But I thought it was a good, if one sided fight. But Faber was clearly and visibly disappointed after. I don't think he beats Barao but I definitely think he can do a lot better than he did the first time. And based on how they're both fighting right now, this is probably the best possible time for them to meet.

[METAL ON METAL]

Probably easier cropping Faber onto the promotional stuff than starting from scratch with the other title fight. They probably (perhaps rightly) feel Faber is a bigger draw than Aldo, plus UFC love to have rematches headlining.

 

Not that it really matters, both fights are 5 rounds.

[jimufctna24]

Guys match up different.

 

Like I said, and I think Ebb, I think this is going to come down to Faber's ability to make it a dirty kind of fight. If he can get on the inside and rough Barao up with elbows and mix in some takedowns and ground striking, I could see him taking a decision. Maybe even stopping Barao late if he can wear on him in the early rounds. If he can't do that he'll be forced to play the outside game and we saw what happened last time. Faber's definitely improved his striking but I don't think he's improved enough to be able to get the better of Barao in that kind of fight.

 

I like the sound of what Faber's saying though. I thought the first fight was alright myself. The crowd shat on it because they'd sat through three cack fights in a row before that. But I thought it was a good, if one sided fight. But Faber was clearly and visibly disappointed after. I don't think he beats Barao but I definitely think he can do a lot better than he did the first time. And based on how they're both fighting right now, this is probably the best possible time for them to meet.

Yeah, I agree, I meant to put styles make fights, and Faber did choose to mix up his striking and grappling which seemed to work better than Barao just straight striking with Macdonald. Maybe Macdonald is dependent on rhythm.

 

I generally agree that Faber has to make this dirty, and to do that he needs to get on the inside as much as possible. If it stays a open fight with distance and Barao finding his range/rhythm it could be a very long night for Faber.

 

I think Faber will have more success than he did the first time though.

[jimufctna24]

Probably easier cropping Faber onto the promotional stuff than starting from scratch with the other title fight. They probably (perhaps rightly) feel Faber is a bigger draw than Aldo, plus UFC love to have rematches headlining.

 

Not that it really matters, both fights are 5 rounds.

Barao is also the least known Champion they have, Lamas is also not exactly a household name either.

 

Aldo has more exposure than both the above combined, but Faber is a bigger star than all 3 combined in America!

[wandshogun09]

Updated UFC 169 poster

 

 

Just seen this Frank Mir quote as well. It's from October when the Overeem fight was first announced, on the possibility of it being a 'loser leaves' thing;

 

"Obviously I have no real desire to fight for another organization, so if I were to be let go that would be a huge step in the form of retirement.

 

As far as the UFC wanting to release us, I've heard the same thing that Dana said, absolutely. I find it hard to believe they're going to let Alistair be picked up by another organization. I still think he could sell a ton of tickets. Myself? I keep my opinion to myself on me. I guess I would have to see what I'm selling afterwards."

 

Didn't even really think of it like this. I was thinking the loser probably won't get cut because Dana won't want Bellator or wherever snapping them up. But say Overeem smashes Mir's face in with knees in about a minute, Mir might just retire. He's no spring chicken in fighter years, he's been through a lot of shit physically and he's taken a fair few beatings over his career.

 

I think Overeem will fight on regardless. I can see the UFC keeping him even with a loss but even if they let him go, there's always GLORY. Mir has been such a Zuffa guy that I don't think he'd want to fight anywhere else. I can see if he loses this one, Dana might have 'the Chuck Liddell talk' with him and sort of nudge him towards calling it a day. If that happens I hope they give him a commentary position again.

[lambyUK]

Not to sound like a smart arse Wand, I called this in November.

 

So, this upcoming Mir/Overeem fight is being deemed a loser leaves town fight. However, is this really the case?

 

Yes, these guys are on a shit streak, but each of their opponents have been pretty high calibre fighters. On top of that, the HW division isn't exactly stacked and these 2 guys provide name value to an event. On top of that, are both too big of a name to just release and be snapped up by Belator?

 

In my opinion, despite enjoying him as a fighter, Overeem is closer to the chopping block than Mir simply due to the baggage he brings and probably the massive contract he was given after he signed after leaving Strikeforce. However, for what Mir has done in the HW division, I can't see him ever being fired by the UFC but simply retiring when he chooses.

 

There's no way for me that Mir would fight anywhere but the UFC. He knows he's too valuable to them simply as a personality and is guaranteed something with them post retirement.

[David]

Mir is a lot of things, and smart is among them. If he loses this fight there's really nowhere left for him to go, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him call it a day.