Dirty Eddie Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 You say that, and there might be some truth to it, but it ignores the key point which is the 'smart' fans have called themselves 'smart' for so long that they now believe it, and think they're smarter than the bookers.  'Someone's getting pushed?! That must be a malign plot to keep MY favourite down, I'm not falling for that. Sly as a fox, me' is the attitude that's killing them.  The fans murdered dead about 6 months of television chanting for Bryan, a bloke in his mid 30s who's far too beaten up to be anybody's next big thing, never really suited the big belt and looks like a pork scratching.  CM Punk upped sticks and left of his own accord, burning every bridge and said he was sick of the industry and even some of his own fans; yet the old Fy Slox's weren't having that. They continued to spoil unrelated segments chanting his name because they were so sure they knew better.  Could the WWE have done, and still do, more for Roman for example?! Of course they could, but it's made infinitely more difficult when the fans, particularly their taping audiences, are desperately looking for conspiracies behind every corner. I fully agree that fans chanting CM Punk forever after he'd walked out on them and the company was petty fan behavior, but the Bryan stuff saved Wrestlemania. No-one outside of the McMahon family and the two men involved wanted Randy Orton/Batista for the Title at Mania.  As for the general idea that "smart fans" ruin WWE's effort to push talents; there really aren't that many examples. Roman, Ryback (more recently, not the first big run) and maybe Sheamus are the only "golden boys" that have had live fan backlash that I can think of. Even then it's mostly boring chants and "what" every time they speak. Maybe if the creative was any good people wouldn't find reasons to amuse themselves.    They think "the divs love Ambrose, let's pal him and Roman around until they forget they hate Roman" and that hasn't done anyone any favours. It's been going on for months and the same wankers are still upset that evil Vince loves Roman when he should love Dean instead.  If Vince loves Roman, he should turn him into a credible top level heel so the bloke gets properly over in the role he's in, instead of being a lame-duck top face. You can still be Vince's Golden Boy and a heel at the same time. The Rock became the mega star he was by being The Corporate Champ. You get 'em over as top heels, then when the fans start to love them, flip them babyface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUM Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Just on the point of how they have someone super over like Dean Ambrose, it's not just about that. It's about shifting merchandise, doing the talk shows etc. Ambrose's character wouldn't allow him to be the face of the company. And in no way would I say he'll shift more merch than Roman Reigns. Reigns is the closest they'll get to Cena as an all rounder. There's no doubting his wrestling ability, he's proven that this year. If they unscripted his promos, he would probably improve. Â Apart from Hogan, did all the other top guys not get over by being heels and naturally turning? Austin, The Rock, Cena? Even the 2nd tier of top guys like Batista were heels who the fans turned face. Edited October 31, 2015 by FUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cutting Edge Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I dont like the idea of Reigns turnig heel, character wise he's the straight badass family man but at the same time it could be for the best....but Fantasy Booking coming....  I'd have Ambrose feud with Sheamus goading him to put his MITB case on the line at TLC in a Ladder match Ambrose wins, Reigns wins the title at Survivor Series  Ambrose promises not to cash in on his brother, said he's he'll give Roman his time as champ, if he ever wants to cash in it'll be to his face man to man etc  Rollins wins the rumble  Everyone expects Ambrose to be lying and cash in but Reigns grows paranoid about the case and the same thing happening again as Mania 31 around Feb/ Fast Lane Roman turns on Ambrose and try and take him out so its Reigns vs Rollins at Mania.  Ambrose ofcourse comes back a few weeks before WM more of a crazy loose cannon loner, cashing in making it a 3 way at Mania.  Ambrose wins the title, we finally get the shield 3 way, Ambrose gets a fresh start as top face, Rollins can go face post Mania, Reigns badass heel for awhile and try get him in a top face position by Mania 33.  All fantasy not perfect I get that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted October 31, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 31, 2015 I still say, and always will say, push Ryback to the MOON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I still say, and always will say, push Ryback to the MOON.  Get a Kickstarter going. I'd chip in a few quid for rocket fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted October 31, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 31, 2015 You're just meat on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 You're just meat on the table. Â Only if he wants his second Wellness Policy violation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted October 31, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 31, 2015 Wellness vloations make stars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Benno Posted October 31, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Just on the point of how they have someone super over like Dean Ambrose, it's not just about that. It's about shifting merchandise, doing the talk shows etc. Ambrose's character wouldn't allow him to be the face of the company. And in no way would I say he'll shift more merch than Roman Reigns. Reigns is the closest they'll get to Cena as an all rounder.I'm not certain Ambrose would be my pick but I'm sure he could handle the PR stuff. Even if he can't, you have a whole roster of people you could be getting over to do those jobs. If they got Bailey over she'd be great doing the charity stuff. You could still make a big kids star to sell merch to that demo and have a different type of top star who could also shift t-shirts to the neckbeards like CM Punk did and Kevin Owens does. Â The next big star probably doesn't have to be a Cena. For all the good work he's done, he's been the top man while wrestling has devolved to close to all time low relevance in pop culture. You can talk his positives as top dog and there are lots, he shifts bucket loads of merch, but equally the demographic of people left watching Raw and buying the Network still skews a lot older than his fanbase. The house shows are full of kids (wasn't Orton moaning recently they only seem to make Cena merch in kids size?) so that's a big consideration, the ones with Cena on do stronger than those without, but attendance overall is bottoming out and house shows as important as they are, are still dwarfed when considering the profits they make in the other important areas of the business. Â Cena has been the biggest star on the roster but he's become the star player at lower mid table side full of journeymen. Their whole strategy of having him as the one big star needs a rethink. You can blame dem wanz all you like, but the company resisting characters who get organically over in favour of moulding someone into the next Cena is probably a flawed strategy. Edited October 31, 2015 by Benno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited)  I'm not certain Ambrose would be my pick but I'm sure he could handle the PR stuff. Even if he can't, you have a whole roster of people you could be getting over to do those jobs. If they got Bailey over she'd be great doing the charity stuff. You could still make a big kids star to sell merch to that demo and have a different type of top star who could also shift t-shirts to the neckbeards like CM Punk did and Kevin Owens does.  Cena has been the biggest star on the roster but he's become the star player at lower mid table side full of journeymen. Their whole strategy of having him as the one big star needs a rethink. You can blame dem wanz all you like, but the company resisting characters who get organically over in favour of moulding someone into the next Cena is probably a flawed strategy.   Well said, that's exactly what I'm talking about.  The ideal situation is you have a whole load of over people, up and down the card, that have merch people will buy. So when someone starts to get popular, just run with it - as far and as fast as you can. What's the worst that could happen? You only end up with a popular midcarder. That's fine. There was a time when midcard acts like Road Dogg, The Hardy Boyz and the like sold shitloads of t-shirts, while the top guys like Rock and Austin sold even more from the main event scene.  Mick Foley, with his 3 gimmicks, book deals, TV commercials and the like was a goldmine for WWF and I bet if you'd shown Vince a picture of Foley from 1994 and said "this fatso with one ear will be one of your biggest money-makers in 4 years time" he'd have laughed you out of the building. You just never know what will get over, how the people will react and who the next big star will be. Edited October 31, 2015 by Dirty Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted November 3, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) Another week where Raw felt like it had a focus towards the Survivor Series main event. I dunno if I just miss this stuff because I don't follow WWE on social media but why pretend at the beginning of the show that this was created on the fly? Why not get the buzz out all week that Reigns and Rollins would be picking a Survivor Series team. The tease at the beginning only existed for Steph to play heel. I don't mind that but the Authority switch between wanky heel and wanky face so often that it makes them irrelevent. Did enjoy HHH flubbing one of his few lines: "I know we're at altitude but high, how are you" The 5 v 5 match and Rollins interactions with Owens and New Day were nice segments. Reigns interview at the beginning was fine ... for 1995. Looks like it's going to be Kane & Taker vs. the Wyatts in a handicap match. That seems like a massive wasted opportunity and will kill the Wyatts when they job. The pyro stuff might be hokey but at least it's doing something with Wyatt. Michael Cole delivered his best line in about ten years out of nowhere: Saxton: "I want a Cesaro section sign"Cole: "No one likes you, Byron" Saxton later called him "Mike". Is anyone less of a "Mike" than Cole? It just sounded weird. Worst thing about this show is that it set up a brilliant Swagger PI gimmick for Jack. How much fun could that be? Swagger staking the Mexamericans in restaraunts and stuff with terrible disguises and hilaious consequences. Maybe some black and white footage with an old time narrator. Maybe he grows a mo like Tom Selleck and drives a classic 308. Imagine how much fun this would be 15 years ago. Edited November 3, 2015 by tiger_rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WWFChilli Posted November 3, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 3, 2015 Del Rio will beat Swagger in a semi squash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted November 3, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 3, 2015 Maybe it's listening to the SCG podcast and already lamenting the devaluation of the Survivor Series PPV, but I'm positively livid that they gave away a traditional Survivors style eliminator featuring talent the calibre of Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose and New Day on fucking Raw. When you're watching shite eliminators on the show itself featuring your Matadores etc, that match will linger in the memory as a "lets have a look at what you could have won" like 1999 all over again. Â I know not everyone enjoys a good Survivors as much as me but.... shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Linus Posted November 3, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 3, 2015 I enjoyed the show again this week. It feels like it has purpose. Which is not something you should have to say about something but it's nice to be able to. Â The highlights were the women's four-way - imagine that! - and Jack Swagger turning detective. But there was a ton of other great stuff, too. Â The negatives were the opening promo - yeah, I know - where Rollins seems to have watched Ted DiBiase and worked out that the only thing worth stealing was his fake laugh, and then stealing it badly, and Reigns just... being... slow... for... effect. Oh, and no-one needed to see a Lucha Dragons versus Barrett & Sheamus match, let alone one that went that long. Â Otherwise, good show, worth watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra1000 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) Maybe it's listening to the SCG podcast and already lamenting the devaluation of the Survivor Series PPV, but I'm positively livid that they gave away a traditional Survivors style eliminator featuring talent the calibre of Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose and New Day on fucking Raw. When you're watching shite eliminators on the show itself featuring your Matadores etc, that match will linger in the memory as a "lets have a look at what you could have won" like 1999 all over again. Â I know not everyone enjoys a good Survivors as much as me but.... shit. Â I'm with you Raid. It was pretty good but...why? It more or less confirms that the concept is meaningless to them. (as if we didn't know that) and we probably won't see many good ones at Survivor Series. Oh well. Roman Reign's superman punch #outtanowhere could easily catch fire. It's awesome. Â Glad to see the Usos back though. I think they are a fresh pairing for the New Day and I reckon them vs The Dudleys might be great too. Â Few thoughts...Do Ryback's singlets get shitter everyweek? Paige is way more tolerable as a heel. I do love Jack Swagger, he's a talented lad in the ring so I hope they do something with him... Edited November 3, 2015 by Cobra1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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