UFC 155: 'Dos Santos vs Velasquez 2'

[Egg Shen]

Werdum, if he beats Nog, would be the best bet I'd imagine. Reem should beat Bigfoot. In the unlikely event Bigfoot and Nog win though? Fuck knows

Personally, if Nogueira beats Werdum then I'd go ahead and give him the titleshot. He would have went 3-1 since he lost to Velasquez in 2010, and whilst he certainly wouldn't be the favourite he'd be as deserving as anyone else in the division.

hmmm, as a Nogueira fan it'd make a hell of a story but i just don't think i could handle seeing Cain destroy Nog again.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah me neither. Cain destroyed Nog last time and that was 3 years ago (Jesus, that's flown by hasn't it). Cain has gone from strength to strength whereas Nog has been sliding further closer to retirement, had more injuries, got slower, flabbier and looks like an old man at 36.

 

I mean, can you believe Anderson Silva is older than Nog?

 

It's a testament to how great Nog was that he can still compete with and school younger, bigger, faster, stronger fighters like Herman and Schaub. Especially as physically limited as he is these days. Plus almost KOing Mir. He could have been on a 3 fight win streak right now had he not tried that ill-fated guillotine.

 

We all know Cain will cane him again though. But you know Nog would be all over a rematch. He's fearless and with JDS briefly out of the picture, it's Nog's last shot at gold. He won't do it but it would make for a great story.

 

If Nog beats Werdum, which at this point I doubt, I could see him getting a shot. Reem will be first in line obviously.

[METAL ON METAL]

Surprised no one has mentioned Struve, surely he should be pretty near a title shot if he beats Mark Hunt - it'd be five wins in a row. Its been against arguably better calibre fighters than any other contender currently as well and all 4 fights he has finished - plus I can't recall Struve ever being in a boring fight which always helps sell a main event.

 

I wouldn't give him much chance against Cain, though it'd be fun to see their clash of styles, but you couldn't say he'd be undeserving of a shot if he finishes Hunt.

[David]

Shit, I forgot all about Struve. It's so easy to dismiss him because he looks so young, and his losses have been spectacular and live long in the memory. One thing though, surely if Struve is in the picture we could make a claim for Roy Nelson as well? I know Dana wouldn't entertain the idea, as the very thought of Nelson holding a UFC title would probably make him physically ill, but he's certainly in the mix.

[wandshogun09]

True, Struve has to be up there. Hunt would have to be within a win or two of contention as well if he beats Struve. Neither would trouble Cain but, on merit, they'd deserve a crack.

 

Either would likely need one more win though. Overeem and Werdum have to be ahead of them. So maybe Struve vs Nog if they both win? That could be good. If Hunt beats Struve then Hunt vs Nelson maybe?

 

EDIT - Yep, Nelson is slowly making a case. If Hunt beats Struve then fights Nelson that could actually be a good contender fight. Crazy when you think not long ago Hunt's career was on it's arse and the UFC only gave him fights because they were contractually obligated from the Pride deal.

 

I wouldn't mind a Struve vs Nelson rematch at some point too. Even with how the first one went. I think Struve has really matured as a fighter since then.

[jimufctna24]

I only watched the Main Card, but here are my thoughts.

 

- The opener underlined that Chris Leben is one of the most limited fighters in the sport. I like him and ring rust would factor in, but all he has is power in hands, a decent chin and some ground defense. Brunson was nothing special, and will probably become a mid/lower tier middleweight. Leben's game is far too predictable, Brunson knew to keep circling away from his shots and not trade. I could gamplan a average wrestler to beat the Leben we saw Saturday night. Think Leben may only have a few fights left in this climate.

 

Okami may be the most underrated fighter in the sport, lets face it he would beat Tim Boetsch 95 times out of 100 if they rematched. Okami shut down a man who gave Palhares fits on the ground. Who has Okami lost to in recent years, only Sonnen and Silva, for my money the two best Middleweights there has ever been in MMA. His game is based around control mainly and his striking is nothing special, but its very effective. If he was more aggressive with his subs he could be a finisher as well. He was on great form on Saturday.

 

I cannot gloat about picking against Boestsch, because he broke his hand, got his cut from a headbutt and was eyepoked. He showed amazing heart which is his biggest asset, he should make a mint in his next few fights on Main Cards, even if he is still the weakest link out of the top 10 185lbs.

 

Miller vs Lauzon was a classic, it showcased all facets of MMA. Both are tough as nails, Miller's striking has improved and he is a fucking mauler when causing damage, most 155'ers would have found a way to quit, but not Lauzon. A real blood and guts war which had a lot of skill involved, really was the highlight of the show.

 

The Main Event was like a fat girl with a nice personality, you should like her but she is not easy to look at. This comes from a JDS fan of course. I cannot stand Cain, he is a nice guy and one hell of a fighter (prime for prime no HW in history matches up head to head with the version of Cain on Saturday night) but I like my fighters to be expressive and have charm, he is such a dullard he is very hard to warm to.

 

The fight itself was far from boring (hence the good personality comparison) but was hard for me to watch/enjoy with a guy I really like getting mauled. It was not as one-sided as Rogan (more on him in a min) made out. The first moments JDS looked like he had Cain in trouble, he was defending takedowns with relative ease, it was only when Cain got his boxing going when the tied turned.

 

JDS was not in the fight for rounds 2 and 3, Cain gave a commanding performance and was a octagon general that reflected Matt Hughes in his pomp, he did slow down after round two, Rogan did either not notice or not want to acknowledge this as he feel Cain was "being patient" which was bollocks. Cain was going at such a high pace many 185'ers would have slowed, Cain's performance was great enough without Rogan overstating it.

 

JDS made some basic mistakes, he left his chin up often after breaking from clinches, and backed up to the cage too much which allowed Cain to ram him into it. JDS did land some decent shots later on in the 4th and 5th, Cain took those rounds on control in my opinion. JDS tried that muay thai plun which could have landed big knees, but just could not pull the trigger.

 

If JDS would have not been damaged and had his senses we could have had a very different fight, that is not a knock on Cain he did the damage on his own merit in the first. A rematch I would favor Cain, but JDS does has holes he can fill to increase his chance. There were moments where he did shit down Cain's game and landed shots of his won, hence why it was not as one-sided as others may think. If he can find more ways of doing that consistently, who knows.

 

I know we have the Mexico market, but its bad for business with Cain as Champ in my view. Him and Overeem should do well if it happens and will draw my interest, but I think Cain will struggle with the casual viewer when he has to draw on his own merit. There is just nothing there with his personality, he is not good looking, cool, a dickhead, personable, mystical or dead-pan. No character traits fans can form emotion to.

 

Joe Rogan was horrible during the Main Event, the most biased and one-sided view point I have ever heard. Anik added noting of worth, I could forget he was there with Rogan taking charge. Cain was fantastic, but he was not turning water to wine like Rogan was making out. It took him ages to give JDS credit for having heart. I like Rogan and his style, but Saturday night he was at his worst.

 

Overall, for me a bad end to 2012. The card in Brazil in a few weeks should be top-draw though.

 

Edit: Apologies for droning on.

[Egg Shen]

Joe Rogan was horrible during the Main Event, the most biased and one-sided view point I have ever heard. Anik added noting of worth, I could forget he was there with Rogan taking charge. Cain was fantastic, but he was not turning water to wine like Rogan was making out. It took him ages to give JDS credit for having heart. I like Rogan and his style, but Saturday night he was at his worst.

i genuinely think Rogan had an erection at one point.

 

I agree with everything you said about Chris Leben too.

[The Natural]

In the stuff I've read post-fight it amazes me how quick people have turned on JDS. Fuck those bandwagon jumping twats. People are saying JDS' first win over Cain was pure luck, acting like he was all hype etc. I've even seen people saying he was cocky. What the fuck?

 

Cain fought a fantastic fight. Full credit to him and I look forward to him smashing Overeem if that fight happens. But the way people have turned on Dos Santos and especially the booing after the fight leaves a sour taste. I hate that type of fan. Glory hunting mongs.

Fight fans, and especially MMA fans are a fickle bunch. Fuck 'em.

 

I mentioned that I really didn't like dos Santos getting booed before his interview when he went all five rounds taking a beating. Felt sorry for dos Santos when he rightly ask "Why do you do that?"

 

I forgot to mention in that post how I liked Lauzon going for a finish, a flying leg lock even though he was losing and a bloody mess. I'd like to see more fighters go for it when the only way they can win a fight is to finish them. Boetsch/Okami was a great example of such a thing.

[David]

Joe Rogan was horrible during the Main Event, the most biased and one-sided view point I have ever heard. Anik added noting of worth, I could forget he was there with Rogan taking charge. Cain was fantastic, but he was not turning water to wine like Rogan was making out. It took him ages to give JDS credit for having heart. I like Rogan and his style, but Saturday night he was at his worst.

i genuinely think Rogan had an erection at one point.

As sad as it is, the announcing on UFC events has been poor for a while, and it's blatantly obvious when Rogan especially is shilling his favourites, or the guys that the company want to win.

 

The fact that they want to crack Mexico, and Dana White was talking about it at the post-fight presser should mean that Rogans commentary should come as a surprise to no one.

[wandshogun09]

Jim, you've pretty much nailed my thoughts on the main event. We only differ in that I really like Cain and actually get a kick out of his no-nonsense, silent assassin demeanour. But even then, I can't disagree with your assessment that it could possibly hold him back as a star attraction. I can certainly see why people might find it hard to connect to him.

 

I was going to go into a Rogan spiel as well but I'd already rambled enough. Again, I agree. I mean, in truth Cain was clearly winning the fight so you'd expect Rogan to big him up. But it got to the point of cheerleading at times. Its the one problem I have with him as a commentator. He often picks a side in a fight, then calls the whole fight from that POV and ignores the other guy.

 

Like I said, Rogan and Dana, among others, were hyping Cain as 'the best HW ever' from early in his UFC career. JDS put egg on a lot of faces last Nov. This was redemption for them almost as much as it was for Cain.

[METAL ON METAL]

Agree with Jim about Cain, I just can't warm to him. He is a fantastic fighter and I love watching him fight but he just has nothing going for him to connect him to people, not least what the average MMA fan must think of him.

 

He seems like a nice guy and pretty respectful but there is just nothing that stands out at all personality wise. Most of my favourite fighters tend to be those that are in some way relatable like;

JDS - possibly the nicest guy in all of MMA

Lauzon - the type of guy you could play video games with

Wanderlei - the type of guy you'd love to have a pint with

Mark Hunt - the type of guy you'd love to have a McDonalds with

Belfort - cause he just looks cool as fuck

Colin Fletcher - most entertaining guy in MMA arguably

Ross Pearson - local guy and entertaining

 

Cain just doesn't have anything like that going for him, at least from all I've saw of him (including Fight Factory) - a quite shy and reserved guy which isn't a bad thing in general but I can't help but feel it'll do him damage in terms of trying to be a major star alongside the likes of GSP, Lesnar, Liddell, Ortiz or Anderson - that being said there doesn't seem to be a whole lotta people on the roster right now who could match those guys, other than say Jones and possibly Rousey.

[jimufctna24]

Not sure why JDS got booed to be honest, there were chants of Cigano throughout the fight, but he did get booed at the weigh-in and after the fight. As MOM, wand and others have said he is a very nice chap, akin to GSP in 2005 or Big Nog at well any point.

 

Difference between Liddel and Cain is whilst they both have a no nonsense approach, Liddel was quite out-going. He was meant to be shit as P.R, but his mohawk and unique look made him look a star, Cain just looks like a generic Heavyweight and does reflect a star aura. People will say the Mexican market, but he is no Oscar De Le Hoya who could draw anyway, he is just not personable enough. He should draw down in Mexico if they go there, but Roger Huerta would have done the job as well if he was still fighting to a high quality (thanks EBB for reminding me about him)

 

Oh and Happy New Year guys

[Egg Shen]

see im with wand. i love Cain's demeanor, theres nothing false about, hes just a quiet, hard working Mexican who kills muthafuckers when hes locked in the cage. I love the guy.

 

Cain getting from a battered Bigfoot covered im blood and not even celebrating was one of my all time favorite MMA visuals. Killer.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, I loved the way Cain dealt with Bigfoot. It was like a lion in the wild, stalking an outmatched gazelle, ragging it about, ripping it apart, then just casually strolling off covered in the blood and leaving the tattered carcass in his wake. You have to admire that.

 

He might not be everyone's cup of tea but as long as he keeps winning fights he'll be marketable to some extent, especially with the Latino audience. Not like a De La Hoya but De La Hoya was a megastar in the mid 90s-early 2000s. Very few reach that level. And even he had his detractors for a good while being that he had to follow Chavez as Mexico's boxing poster boy and a lot of the macho male Mexican fans were slow to warm to the pretty boy-ness (?) of his image.

[Supremo]

Cain getting from a battered Bigfoot covered im blood and not even celebrating was one of my all time favorite MMA visuals. Killer.

Completely agree with this. The way that Bigfoot fight ended, with Cain nonchalantly stepping away from the complete massacre he'd created, was cool as fuck. Covered in blood, no remorse, he looked like an absolute destroyer. It's a weird type of marketability, and it's certainly not as obvious as JDS's, but there's undeniably something there with Cain. Plus, his silent, deadly demeanor perfectly fits that, "baddest man on the planet," tag they keep attaching to the Heavyweight Title. He comes away from victories looking like a fucking killer. Promoted correctly, there's money there, definitely.

 

 

You don't fuck with this man.