Daily Buzzard Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 The only thing that matters is the economy. If it improves in the next 4 years, Obama will be looked upon as a good president. If it doesn't, he won't. The gay marriage, abortion, marijanua legalisation, healthcare stuff is pretty much irrelevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Personally, I voted Liberal Democrat at the last general election. I liked their values and I liked the policies they had- electoral reform, abolition of tuition fees, crack down on tax avoidance. I didn't have a problem with them forming a coalition with the Conservatives, I didn't even have a problem with them having to implement policies I didn't agree with. What I did have a problem with was the likes of Vince Cable and Nick Clegg standing up in the Commons explaining why these policies were right and necessary. Â They should have shown some back bone and stood up for their core values and expressed some sort of resistance. At the very least they should have said 'listen, we don't like it, but this is a Coalition and for this Government to run smoothly we have to treble tuition fees etc.' To me it just seems they have essentially abandoned their principals and the future of their party for a few years of power. Only recently have they started to disagree with some of the policies the Conservatives are trying to push through. Â Â I agree with all of that. We don't really have a language of coalition government in this country, I think both parties have been trying to work out how to approach it. Â In a normal government, as a minister you tow the government line even if in private you disagree. That's how the party system works, how the whip works. Both the Lib Dem and Tory ministers have been, until more recently, treating the coalition in that manner - disagree in private, present a united front in public. Â But it's counter-productive, as the public would appreciate and be able to handle more honesty than that. The Lib Dems should say, "Look, this isn't out policy, but we've added these bits and feel that this is the best approach we can negotiate." Or be honest and say "We're backing this policy, because it'll allow us to get Tory support for this other policy which is vital for us as a party." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ronnie Posted November 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2012 If people are smart at the next election, they'll vote to increase the Liberal's share of parliament and increase their influence over future policy. Or, you know, would've voted for a fairer voting system that would rule out the compromise of coalition and the approach "I'd vote for the Libs but it's be wasted" ... an alternative vote as it were. People aren't smart though, are they? Young people in this country have a right to access information free of charge until the age of 18 - I can't say that the rate of return to the taxpayer looks particularly good, judging by comments of people of all ages and professions on my Facebook feed. It stands out to me that it's only the English people on there too, because the Scots and overseas folk don't come out with any red-top nonsense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I was under the impression that in certain cases (mainly tuition fees) that what the Lib Dems have actually been trying to say is "Well, yeah, when we said we were going to do that what we actually meant is, it's something we'd like to be able to do. But we can't. Not ever. Sorry about that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 If people are smart at the next election, they'll vote to increase the Liberal's share of parliament and increase their influence over future policy. Or, you know, would've voted for a fairer voting system that would rule out the compromise of coalition and the approach "I'd vote for the Libs but it's be wasted" ... an alternative vote as it were. People aren't smart though, are they? Young people in this country have a right to access information free of charge until the age of 18 - I can't say that the rate of return to the taxpayer looks particularly good, judging by comments of people of all ages and professions on my Facebook feed. It stands out to me that it's only the English people on there too, because the Scots and overseas folk don't come out with any red-top nonsense at all. Â We're myopic about our voting system over here, whilst simultaneously sniggering at the Americans over theirs. Â Our generation will come to deeply regret not voting Yes on the Electoral Reform referendum, flawed though the offer was. A lot of bright people got that one wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members nfc90210 Posted November 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2012 Donnie should chill. Espcially now that Barry Barack has taken the lead in, and appears will win, the popular vote as well. Â http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22...s-election.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Bifkin Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Gutted. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstar69 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I dont get why people are unhappy with Obama winning hasnt he done a good job since he became President? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted November 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2012 Fox News gets pranked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwBiqeL6pMM&feature=fvsr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyV.2 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 The issue with the Lib Dems isn't the coalition (even though Clegg was fucking insufferable at the beginning of it) It's that they have wilted on EVERYTHING. They have no power whatsoever, and the fact that Clegg oversaw oneof the worst Lib Dem results seats wise and yet still wields power is fucking shocking. Â Fact is the Tories got in because people didn't want Brown. If Blair had still be leader, Labour would have won again. If David Miliband had stood, he would have won. Cameon didn't win a majority which is astounding given the economic situation we had been in, and therefore the Libs should have kept him in check. Instead they've rolled over so a few of their sell outs can get a lift to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Fact is the Tories got in because people didn't want Brown. If Blair had still be leader, Labour would have won again. If David Miliband had stood, he would have won. Cameon didn't win a majority which is astounding given the economic situation we had been in, and therefore the Libs should have kept him in check. Instead they've rolled over so a few of their sell outs can get a lift to work. Â I agree with all of that. The Tories were elected on the 'anyone but Brown' factor rather than because anybody thought Cameron and his calamitous mate Gideon had any kind of viable plan for recovery; I find it ironic when Cameron and Tory supporters criticise Milliband's Labour for providing opposition for opposition's sake rather than alternatives, because those were exactly the tactics that brought Cameron to office (and proceeded of course by the post-election policy of blaming everything on 'the mess we were left with'). Â I can certainly see why the Libs haven't kicked out Clegg yet, though. In practical terms, they've little choice but to see this coalition through now, having realised how ineffectual they are within it in real terms, and let Clegg take the brunt of the ill feeling that comes with it. That way, the new leader can have a relatively clean slate once it's all done with and get on with rebuilding the party's reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted November 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2012 Nick Clegg didn't choose the Tories, the voting public chose the Tories. I can never get my head around what people's expectations would be. Â Should he have: Â a) Refused to form a coalition and left us in a state of not having a government whilst elections were held again and again and again until by attrition one of the parties scored a majority? Â b) Welcomed the offer by the outgoing government to join forces and keep them in office after thirteen years, even though that other party didn't come in first place? Â c) Agree with the principle that if a coalition needs to be formed, then it's more representative of democracy to work in partnership with the party which finished in first place? Â Â None of the above. Â d) Declare an intent to form a National Government, like we had from 1931-40. Â MacDonald/Baldwin/Chamberlain's government had its faults, but ultimately it did justify the reason it was founded, i.e. restoring balance to the budget and something resembling stability to the economy in the wake of the Depression. Â From a Machiavellian point of view, it was also a perfect opportunity for Clegg to improve the outright election chances of the Lib Dems by appearing statesman-like, more in control than the LDs actually are, and showing genuine concern for the country rather than self-interest (whether true or not). Â Even if it hadn't happened, it would've made the Lib Dems at least look more appealing, and I think that would genuinely have translated into votes for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Who would have been Prime Minister of that National Government then? Brown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Bifkin Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Who would have been Prime Minister of that National Government then? Â Sir Ian Botham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members niff Posted November 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2012 The only thing that matters is the economy. If it improves in the next 4 years, Obama will be looked upon as a good president. If it doesn't, he won't. The gay marriage, abortion, marijanua legalisation, healthcare stuff is pretty much irrelevent. Â A colleague at work (who loves her conspiracy theories) says that Obama is merely a puppet regardless of who was voted in, that those really in charge have their agenda. She is adamant that the US economy will collapse by the summer. I'm no expert but is she on to something, or just on something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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