RIOT!

[King Pitcos]

Tbf I cant see that the cuts have actually taken effect anywhere yet, which is why im scratching my head a little as to why people are doom mongering when by and large they havent yet happened?

The cuts have definitely started in the police. All forces (as far as I know) have to cut their budgets by X amount over the next few years, and that has certainly started.

[patiirc]

It's a good thing that cuts haven't taken effect yet pat because I would take a guess that things could have been a whole lot worse otherwise, I don't care about party politics but anyone who still defends cuts to the police force is mental as far as I am concerned.

 

Like I posted the Government can suddenly find billions when it suits them.

 

 

That's something we will never know as is completely hypothetical at this stage. The cuts, were designed to be from back room staff afaik, bt the police have gone for either the largest savings, quickest, or are bypassing much of the paperworkers in earnest as they are on lower wages. Ive got friends in the force and they say its a complete mess and needs sorting, but that the top bods arent cutting the right areas when it does go ahead. Accountancy cutting as opposed to common sensical cutting.

 

Again not defending it, but im sure some proper ewouldnt have gone a miss rather than slash your budgets in any means that you can.

 

I'm of the opinion that, at least in the case of the copycat riots that spread throughout the country, a big part of the reason they 'did it in the first place' was the perception of an absence of consequence. For thick, criminally-inclined people, the images and overall narrative coming from the news coverage probably communicated the potential of significant material rewards versus very little risk of tangible punishment, be it physical or judicial. It also probably looked pretty exciting to those brought up with the bullshit macho rhetoric of gang culture.

 

In that respect, I think trying to reassert the message that crime has real consequences, not just for the victim but for the offender, is very much part of tackling the root causes of the problem, along with the more liberal community-based policies.

 

I dont think that the people doing this stuff actually give a shit about the consequences and this is the problem. The offenders dont care. They have little to lose, will have a short stint behind bars, and will be out again soon enough. Job done. Prison and punishment like that is seen as an annoyance not a punishment. Even if the likes of Capital Punishment didnt work back in the day people still did it.

 

In this case the politicos and the police are wide of the mark, in so much that if they wanted to do it again then they would.. irrespective

[Magnum]

I dont think that the people doing this stuff actually give a shit about the consequences and this is the problem. The offenders dont care. They have little to lose, will have a short stint behind bars, and will be out again soon enough. Job done. Prison and punishment like that is seen as an annoyance not a punishment. Even if the likes of Capital Punishment didnt work back in the day people still did it.

 

In this case the politicos and the police are wide of the mark, in so much that if they wanted to do it again then they would.. irrespective

 

IMO though, the reason they don't give a shit about the consequences is because a lot of them haven't experienced any for their previous offences - most of them don't think they will have even a short stint behind bars (I'm sure I've heard/read as much from the looters interviewed in news reports this week), because they've only experienced silly ineffectual shit like ASBO's and community orders in the past. As a result, they've kept pushing and pushing to see how much they can get away with, and it's resulted in this. I may sound like a hang 'em high reactionary here, but I do believe a big part of maintaining order in a democratic society is the principle that, as much as rehabilitation, justice has to be seen to be done by both victims and potential offenders.

 

I also think one of the reasons it's died down in the last few days is because of the mobilisation of the community patrols - in most cases (aside from the tragic exception of the hit and run in Birmingham), the mobs weren't keen on tackling sizable groups of men who might not be overly concerned about the human rights act - in other words, when there was the perception of a tangible deterrent. As much as the riots disgusted me, the speed with which communities united to defend themselves reassured me that the country isn't entirely fucked.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I'm becoming less and less convinced by the Liberal Democrats 'sold out' argument. And, I wasn't that convinced in the first place.

 

Had they joined Labour, they still wouldn't have had a majority and would have both been murdered by the press. And, by all accounts, Labour seemed happy to not negotiate with the Lib Dems, fearing the longer term damage to their image by clinging to power.

 

Had they told the Tories to get stuffed, the Tories would have stumbled through with a minority before going back to the polls able to say 'look what happened, when you tried something different, now just vote Tory and get on with it' and probably won a majority.

 

The Lib Dems had the option of ineffective government and bad press or eventual Tory majority or taking the bad press and the chin by joining the Tories, but be able to get a few Lib Dem policies on the board at the same time. And, let's face it, they had such a small percentage of seats (less than they were expected to get, in fact) that they were never going to have the leverage to demand their marquee policies such as free tuition.

 

My favourite policy so far from this government is the raising of the personal allowance threshold, and that would never have happened with a Tory majority. And, Chris Huhne (dick, he might be) is doing a very effective job.

[The Miz]

Unfortunate Kodak moment....

 

[bobbins]

Despite what everyone says about the Conservatives they're not doing anything that that Labour wouldn't have done if they'd won the election.

This is completely untrue.

 

Yeah, they've allowed themselves to be too subsumed into the Tories, and haven't highlighted their successes nearly enough. Clegg in particular made a mistake by getting too close to Cameron.

This is the key problem for the Libs. You're right that the electorate aren't used to coalition governments so don't know how they work, but the same can be said for MPs, the Lib Dems in particular. It's one thing to vote for policies in order to keep the coalition together, it's another to be the frontline voice for the most appalling and anti-liberal of those policies. They've been completely scammed by the Tories into buying the idea that you've all got to stick to the party line on every issue. It's a ridiculous and self-defeating aspect of modern British politics even for majority governments, cooked up by spin-doctors to try and outwit the ravenous, simplistic press.

 

They've let themselves be the patsies for the worst and toughest-sell policies, and whenever there's a chance to look good or strong, there isn't a Lib-Dem in sight. That's not how coalitions work in Europe, the minority parties are smart enough to not let themselves lose their independence. Clegg still hasn't clicked.

[Dead Mike]

In a move of sheer awesomeness Greater Manchester Police are listing the details of everyone convicted of crimes associated with the Manc riots via their twitter.

 

http://twitter.com/#!/gmpolice

[The King Of Swing]

Greater Manchester Police are fuckin idiots and asking for trouble.

[Dead Mike]

Trouble in what sense?

[spurs 4 life]

Trouble in what sense?

 

People seeking revenge?

[The King Of Swing]

Lets also not forget that there is a good chance that many people convicted probably have family who were not even involved in recent events and could suffer as a result of the GMP's idiocy here.

 

These fools have been convicted and setenced so I see no reason for this kind of stupidity.

[Dead Mike]

In fairness it's already public info that would've been available on their website regardless. They're just naming & shaming them.

[spurs 4 life]

I would have liked them to give every rioter thousands of hours of community service to help rebuild the areas they have burnt down?

[The King Of Swing]

In fairness it's already public info that would've been available on their website regardless. They're just naming & shaming them.

 

Thats all well and good but most people are simply too lazy to actually look the info up (or are unware it is there to begin with) and imo considering current mood in the country right now I think it's a poorly thought out move on the GMP's part.

[Kiffy]

Naming the streets is a bit harsh, these people have and come from families, who shouldn't be getting this grief. Yes it's in the public domain anyway but a name and a photo would acheive the same thing without bringing people who were not involved into it.