Ross Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 To me, that says that we need to ensure that the police and the courts earn the respect of the scum and that the people at the bottom of the ladder get further chances to climb up it. Â Calling them scum will definitely do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted August 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2011 Calling them scum will definitely do the trick. Are you just trolling now? I've differentiated in this thread many times and in my post between the greedy crims and the poor bastards. So fuck off with your bullshit please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 The thing is even when governments do, and I mean of all parties, try and tackle underlying social problems (particularly as concerns money) they focus on reducing poverty. They do this in many ways, some effective and some not, but so endemic is our belief in the 'reduction of poverty' that we forget that reducing poverty only raises incomes, reducing inequality raises spirits. And, if we want young men and women, constantly bombarded with advertisements and implicit references to things they don't have, and have no hope of having, to feel like valued members of society then we have to look at tackling inequality as well as just poverty. Â Clearly, this doesn't mean a reductionist Marxist view of income inequality but rather a holistic view of inequality that looks at access to resources, and tools, that wealthier individuals take for granted. This means looking at things like the 'internship' culture in the careers market, whereby people are expected to work for free to bolster their CV (unattainable for people from low income families); the decentralisation of the economy (high speed rail is actually a part of this) as well as looking at the benefits of a graduate tax or other solutions. Â Aside from equality, as a society we need to look at the responsiveness, and representativeness, of the state institutions. The first aspect of this was looking at changing the archaic first-past-the-post voting system (and, no, before some smart arse jumps in i'm not linking this directly to the riots) but that failed because we allowed the conservative media to control the narrative, but other tools are available to us; the ability to recall MP's, community policing arrangements whereby chief constables hold community conferences monthly to address certain issues, the devolution/decentralisation of economic powers to cities so public services can be tailored to the needs of the individual communities and perhaps even the installation of directly elected Mayors in all cities so that local people have a political focal point, aside from an MP, who is not caught between the cross hairs of localism and central government. Â Amen to that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Are you just trolling now? I've differentiated in this thread many times and in my post between the greedy crims and the poor bastards. So fuck off with your bullshit please. Â I'm not, but you made a post before that made lots of sense, just don't see how you think you will earn anyones respect by calling them scum. It's not bullshit whatsoever, but cheers for being so polite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Burchill's Buddy Posted August 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2011 No one walks into jobs now. If I wanted to get payback on every company that had not responded to an application I'd never have time to do anything else. This is what I was saying the other day, it's ridiculous to think that someone's reaction to not getting a reply from a business is to smash the shit out of it. That kind of rejection is an important life lesson that comes to almost everyone, and the best way to apply for jobs in my experience is to spread the net as far and wide as possible so that the individual rejections mean less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 This is what I was saying the other day, it's ridiculous to think that someone's reaction to not getting a reply from a business is to smash the shit out of it. That kind of rejection is an important life lesson that comes to almost everyone, and the best way to apply for jobs in my experience is to spread the net as far and wide as possible so that the individual rejections mean less. Â You've probably got one GCSE to your name and have a grasp of basic spelling and grammar. I wonder what some of their CV's look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I'm not, but you made a post before that made lots of sense, just don't see how you think you will earn anyones respect by calling them scum. It's not bullshit whatsoever, but cheers for being so polite. Â Seriously, this again? It's not like he's suggesting the police are going to earn that respect by addressing with a friendly greeting of 'wotcha, scumbags?' at their first community liaison session. But respect is a two-way street, and maybe some of these rioters need to also earn our respect by behaving like something other than, you know, scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spurs 4 life Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 You've probably got one GCSE to your name and have a grasp of basic spelling and grammar. I wonder what some of their CV's look like. Â Whiskey you seem like a nice fella so please stop this. You can argue until your blue in the face but when you reply to Rick like you just did it sounds like your defending them and this thread has too much bickering in it. Â Let's concentrate on solutions now yeah? I'm glad you liked my idea of community service i'm just gutted the goverment haven't gone down that route. I also think there is a difference in solutions when speaking about London where i maintain there are plenty of opportunities and say Liverpool which is a much much smaller place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted August 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) I'm not, but you made a post before that made lots of sense, just don't see how you think you will earn anyones respect by calling them scum. It's not bullshit whatsoever, but cheers for being so polite. I sincerely apologise to the long term criminals and the employed or highly educated jolly looters who maybe offended at being called 'scum'. Â Cock. Edited August 12, 2011 by tiger_rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Seriously, this again? It's not like he's suggesting the police are going to earn that respect by addressing with a friendly greeting of 'wotcha, scumbags?' at their first community liaison session. But respect is a two-way street, and maybe some of these rioters need to also earn our respect by behaving like something other than, you know, scum. Â However, the police do address some kids with worse than that - one of the reasons for their alienation from the police. You act as if what you call someone is irrelevant, when as has been shown throughout history, is not. By calling someone scum you're effectively calling them worthless and it is precisely that sense of worthlessness that is one of the main causes of this behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) However, the police do address some kids with worse than that - one of the reasons for their alienation from the police. You act as if what you call someone is irrelevant, when as has been shown throughout history, is not. By calling someone scum you're effectively calling them worthless and it is precisely that sense of worthlessness that is one of the main causes of this behaviour. Â In the example you drew attention to though, a police officer wasn't addressing one of them. A person on a message board was talking about them, and, seeing as he's not paid to engage with this lot but may well at some point have to cope with the cost of their behaviour, he's entitled to voice the opinion that someone who's spent the last week smashing, burning and looting is worthless. Â In this case, they're being thought of as scum specifically because of their actions, and as much as the police may have to work to change their own perception in these communities as brutal, biased thugs, these scumbags underprivileged disaffected offenders also have to work to change the wider public perception of themselves as scum. Edited August 12, 2011 by Magnum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 In the example you drew attention to though, a police officer wasn't addressing one of them. A person on a message board was talking about them, and, seeing as he's not paid to engage with this lot but may well at some point have to cope with the cost of their behaviour, he's entitled to voice the opinion that someone who's spent the last week smashing, burning and looting is worthless. In this case, they're being thought of as scum specifically because of their actions, and as much as the police may have to work to change their own perception in these communities as brutal, biased thugs, these scumbags underprivileged disaffected offenders also have to work to change the wider public perception of themselves as scum.  And the wider public have to accept their responsibility that if you affectively call someone a worthless piece of shit then you shouldn't be surprised when they act like one. And I'm not talking specifically about rioters, more of the 'underclass', if you will, in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeg_&_The_Heads Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Are we allowed to call the rich and very privileged ones who took part in this scum that Millionaires Daughter for example who could of walked into the shop she looted and bought one of everything without it even making a dent in her/her daddy's bank account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Burchill's Buddy Posted August 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 12, 2011 If Rick was strolling around council estates randomly pointing at people and shouting 'scum', I could see your point Whiskey. But he's not. Magnum, again, said it spot on in that it's because of their ACTIONS and no other reason that he is calling those PARTICULAR PEOPLE scum. Also, Johnnyboy is completely right about the education side of things regarding getting a job. Education is free for anyone who can be fucked to head down to the library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Education is free for anyone who can be fucked to head down to the library. Â That's useful if you can read. I think you're forgetting the fact that some of these people will have never read a book in their lives and some of them wouldn't be able to even if they tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts