The Maestro Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Why people struggle so much to give Cena real credit puzzles me. Â Because he can do a great promo, but then the following week he'll come across like an absolute gimp. He does get the psychological aspect of wrestling, but he can't wrestle that well either. It's not like he's dogshit. It's just that he's not mega. To me, Cena's main skill is getting a huge reaction in anything that's involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 22, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 he can't wrestle that well  He does get the psychological aspect of wrestling  To me, Cena's main skill is getting a huge reaction in anything that's involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 You can't really argue that Cena didn't hold his own or play his part in that match. A pedant could look at spots or timing issues here and there from either man, but that would be completely missing the whole point. Â The drama was so good and the characters so over that they could have done a Lawler and thrown practically nothing but punches the whole match and it still could have been 5 Stars as far as I am concerned. Everything came together perfectly on that night, icluding (and very importantly) the booking of the finish. A damp quib of a finish would have ruined all the hard work. Â Speaking of hard work, while both men deserve equal credit for their work on the night, surely it must be accepted that it was mainly a combination of Punk's contract situation and his two weeks of holy-shit promos that built that atmosphere to the level it was. Nobody has built anticipation for a PPV like Punk did over these last few weeks in years and years. Obviously fantastic booking (for once) from WWE made that possible, but Punk's show-stealing, twitter-crashing antics have been something special. Â Cena has had dozens of featured main event feuds with all kinds of top-level, legendary wrestlers, with all kinds of TV time build-up and special stipulations, but only his combination with Punk got him a 5 Star rating from Mr Meltz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 22, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 Because he can do a great promo, but then the following week he'll come across like an absolute gimp. He does get the psychological aspect of wrestling, but he can't wrestle that well either. It's not like he's dogshit. It's just that he's not mega. To me, Cena's main skill is getting a huge reaction in anything that's involved in. Â Depends what you mean by wrestling. If you mean Crisp Armdrags and chain wrestling, then no. But if you mean wrestling by creating rollercoasters for crowds to consume and emotionally invest in which are full of drama, then he's actually fucking good. Â Getting a huge reaction is your bread and butter as a wrestler. You can put on all the Flair vs Steamboat titanic superb tussles you can, but if it's in front of a crowd sitting on their hands and talking to their next chair neighbour then it is automatically shite. Pro Wrestling isn't a sport, it's a spectacle to be enjoyed and create reactions and induce reactions in the people consuming the product. While Cena can do that, he's a fine pro wrestler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 22, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Speaking of hard work, while both men deserve equal credit for their work on the night, surely it must be accepted that it was mainly a combination of Punk's contract situation and his two weeks of holy-shit promos that built that atmosphere to the level it was. Nobody has built anticipation for a PPV like Punk did over these last few weeks in years and years. Obviously fantastic booking (for once) from WWE made that possible, but Punk's show-stealing, twitter-crashing antics have been something special. How many feuds have you seen without the correct payoff at the end though? As I said earlier, if Kane or Orton was in Cena's position, it wouldnt have been as good as it was with or without the build up. It would have been easy for the match on Sunday to burn out like a wet fart in the wrong hand. The person against Punk needed to be the ying to his yang. From a wrestling style, an dress sense, lifestyle, look and fanbase point of view, they could not be more different. I'd go as far to say, only this pair could have a match that good and could have had the audience that hot in 2011. They are so different, yet work so well together. The buildup was great, but its matches we buy PPV's to watch. Like Jake Roberts said: you can do 100 things right, but if you do one major thing wrong, you've ruined it. And he'd know after that ugly British lass was sick on his cock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 How many feuds have you seen without the correct payoff at the end though? As I said earlier, if Kane or Orton was in Cena's position, it wouldnt have been as good as it was with or without the build up. It would have been easy for the match on Sunday to burn out like a wet fart in the wrong hand. The person against Punk needed to be the ying to his yang. From a wrestling style, an dress sense, lifestyle, look and fanbase point of view, they could not be more different. I'd go as far to say, only this pair could have a match that good and could have had the audience that hot in 2011. They are so different, yet work so well together. The buildup was great, but its matches we buy PPV's to watch. Like Jake Roberts said: you can do 100 things right, but if you do one major thing wrong, you've ruined it. And he'd know after that ugly British lass was sick on his cock. Â I did give due credit to the great booking (both the build-up and the match itself), but I don't think it's being too over the top to suggest that Punk's promos (which got everyone talking, including lapsed fans and fringe followers) did a great deal to get this feud to the level it needed to be. Â Cena played his role to perfection, but he was in the role of the "establishment", holding strong, while all the unpredictable, "I never thought I'd see that happen" stuff was down to Punk. Yes, again, totally down to how they booked it, but the pressure was on Punk who (as an untested 'proper' Main Event talent) had to carry the two go-home episodes of RAW. Punk put on (for my money) the best two moments of RAW of the last 4/5 years, excluding the week one Nexus deal. He fucking owned that ring while both Cena and Vince were in there. Â Cena was totally on form and did his job very well, but Punk talked them into the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I am by no means a Cena lover. He isnt aimed at my age group of 18-30, but as a huge CM Punk fan, I have to concede there is no one on that night I think could have played of Punk and created that atmosphere. Â Cena was excellent last Sunday in that match, whilst it was Punk's night Cena was no passenger, both deserve huge credit and that 5 star rating, it was in my eyes the best match of both their careers. Yes there were moments of sloppyness like when Cena dumped Punk over his head with the grace of Mr Blobby and when Punk undershot that crossbody, but they didnt ruin the enjoyment of the match in any way for me. Â Like mentioned above Cena is no Kurt Angle, he is no technician but he earned his wage and then some on Sunday. Him and Punk gelled togeather on the whole very well, it is forgotten but before the match Punk clapped when Cena entered the ring and from the rumors you hear both have a lot of respect for each other. Cena apperently requested this program, like most of wrestling greatest feuds like Vince vs Austin, both needed one another just as much and both performers probably know that. Â A good point is raised above, if that was Randy Orton or any other performer in WWE the crowd whilst still being white hot for Punk, wouldnt have generated that much emotion, that crowd was as mental a crowd as I have seen in a long time. I grow tired of Cena at times whilst I get why he is in the postion he is in, his childish promos, cartoony matches and superman routine are not my cup of tea, but there are times like this and the matches with Lashley, Khali and others where you cant really have a go at the man. I would put good money on him rising to the occasion with Rock next year, I cant see him having a complete dud two years running after the disaster with Miz this year. Â So for now to Mr Cena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted July 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2011 I would put good money on him rising to the occasion with Rock next year, I cant see him having a complete dud two years running after the disaster with Miz this year. Â Thing is as discussed in this thread, crowd reaction can play a massive part in the drama and perception of how exciting a match is. The crowd for Cena/Rock should be molten, because there won't be a single person in the building that doubts its as MASSIVE SODDING DREAM MATCH, and that The Rock deserves to share the ring with the companys top dog. Â The same could not be said of Miz/Cena - even though some poor souls predicted Miz to win clean - and to be fair even me and my mates struggled to stay wired and were nodding off after HHH/Undertaker had drained our energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Kid Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 The fact that Randy Savage has no 5* matchs goes to show what a biased joke Meltzer is. Savage Vs. Flair at Wrestlemania VIII is better then anything that involves Samoa Joe. You're a complete idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2011 You're a complete idiot. At least say why he's an idiot. I think its a pretty spot on opinion. Flair vs Savage was class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cum Doctor Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I can't believe Savage got mentioned and it WASN'T the Warrior match that got pimped. I can't think of a more perfect match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Kid Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Nothing against Savage-Flair, the match is tremendous. Whats idiotic is the idea that Meltzer is biased against Savage, just completely absurd. The obituary written about Savage by Dave labels him as the second biggest star in modern WWF history and one of the best workers of all time. Meltzer made mention on numerous occasions about how great Savage was in his matches with Bobby Eaton in the late 70s to his run w/Lawler in memphis and then his major runs in WWF and WCW. He couldn't praise him enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lefty Posted July 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2011 Nothing against Savage-Flair, the match is tremendous. Whats idiotic is the idea that Meltzer is biased against Savage, just completely absurd. The obituary written about Savage by Dave labels him as the second biggest star in modern WWF history and one of the best workers of all time. Meltzer made mention on numerous occasions about how great Savage was in his matches with Bobby Eaton in the late 70s to his run w/Lawler in memphis and then his major runs in WWF and WCW. He couldn't praise him enough. Â I think he is referring more to how Meltz is biased towards ROH and Samoa Joe as opposed to against Savage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 You're a complete idiot. Â Says the guy named after a murdering scum bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tom Posted July 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2011 Says the guy named after a murdering scum bag. Yes, because that instantly makes him share all of the same characteristics, and head trauma..... Â As for Meltz and his list, there is no real rhyme or reason for his snow-flakes, and, what with it being his own personal list of course, he more or less just gives them out to suit his own opinions or mind-set at that current time. I think it became apparent a long time ago that there is no real consistency to his list and nor should we expect to find any in there. What makes a five star match for Meltz obviously differs from our opinions on a five star match; it's as simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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