Mr. Seven Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Not enough MOVEZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepperPlunge Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Don't get me started on Joe vs. Kobashi. Just about the epitome of ROH fap-fest. Â Also, if that DDD said that Black/Richards is this generation's Flair/Steamboat, it sounds like he's nicked that from Jim Cornette who was using that line to promote Death Before Dishonor after the show happened. I watched it (admittedly going in with the mindset that it was never going to be as good) and didn't see what the fuss was about whatsoever. I've not watched ROH since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted April 4, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 4, 2011 Don't get me started on Joe vs. Kobashi. Just about the epitome of ROH fap-fest. Â I find it amazing that DDD comes in and has a pot-shot at Triple H v Orton 'kick and punch fests' when one of the highest rated matches in his beloved promotion's history was a million chops and fuck-all else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve rayson Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Useless list really, there's some great matches in there no question about that but the fact Meltzer is completely ignoring the European and British scene is just ridicules (WoS and CWA had some of the most amazing matches in the history of this sport). Dave's a fucking cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liger05 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I dont think you'll ever see a promotion like All Japan ever again. What Giant Baba did there will not be replicated. To have so many ***** matches never mind the ****+ matches is just unreal. Â Misawa really cannot be touched. If match quality is how you determine the greatest then he is unrivalled. I think I do remember Meltzer explaining that a 5 star HBK v Undetaker match for instance is not the same as a 5 star Misawa v Kawada match. I do agree with that. I mean I can watch the Bret Hart v Austin match an be amazed but it just does not have the intensity that those All Japan matches had. Those All Japan matches were just on a totally different level to the 5 star stuff seen in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted June 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 I'd be tempted to wade in as a closet (well, not really) Puro fan, but I'm not sure you picked the right match to criticize for a perceived lack of intensity in terms of Hart vs Austin. They made me believe they wanted to kill each other just as much if not more than Misawa and Kawada ever did, or Misawa and Kobashi for that matter, for which all the bouts seemed to be (admittedly passionate) sporting rivalry over a conflict of characters/hatred. Â I'm sure plenty of Puro fans would point at the use of weapons, brawling in the crowd and blood as shortcuts and that you don't need bleeding to signify "intensity" in a match, and that certainly is true. But from an objective point of view, the fan of western wrestling will point out you also don't need multiple sheer head drops, full impact striking or multiple finish kick outs either. Â For the record, if I were in the business of giving snowflakes, I'd go the Full Monty on Hart vs Austin as from a storytelling standpoint, from start to finish, I wouldn't change a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted June 24, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 24, 2011 I dont think you'll ever see a promotion like All Japan ever again. What Giant Baba did there will not be replicated. To have so many ***** matches never mind the ****+ matches is just unreal. Â Misawa really cannot be touched. If match quality is how you determine the greatest then he is unrivalled. I think I do remember Meltzer explaining that a 5 star HBK v Undetaker match for instance is not the same as a 5 star Misawa v Kawada match. I do agree with that. I mean I can watch the Bret Hart v Austin match an be amazed but it just does not have the intensity that those All Japan matches had. Those All Japan matches were just on a totally different level to the 5 star stuff seen in America. Â To be honest, it depends what you're into. Personally I'd take Mid South over All Japan any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted June 24, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 I'd take "I'd like to speak to Tom" or The Mountie getting a night in the cells, over All Japan. I prefer my promotions to have a good feud and hot angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted June 24, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 24, 2011 Indeed. I've never felt the affinity for Puro that a lot of people do because I have to emotionally invest in the angle surrounding the match to really love it, and I can't do that with Puro. Probably the language barrier or something. Â And "I'd like to talk to Tom" is something TNA should rip off post haste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WWFChilli Posted June 24, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 Indeed. I've never felt the affinity for Puro that a lot of people do because I have to emotionally invest in the angle surrounding the match to really love it, and I can't do that with Puro. Probably the language barrier or something. And "I'd like to talk to Tom" is something TNA should rip off post haste.  Yeah the language barrier gets me a bit but I think there angles ran into the hype of the matches more than actual angles. Kobashi defeating Misawa in 03 was HUGE because he never pinned Misawa for a singles title at that point. Same with the evolution of Misawa from Tiger Mask II and the Misawa/Kawada feud to be the AJPW ace in Baba's eyes. I'd love to have been around and following AJPW in the 90's, admittedly I'd have to have lived there, curses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted June 24, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 I view Puro as an additional interest to American pro wrestling as it satisfies the "sports" element a little better, just as American far outstrips it in terms of "entertainment." I wouldn't say necessarily I prefer either to the other as it completely depends what mood I'm in - and I find you REALLY have to be in the mood for Puro.  It's possibly hard to explain, but while for instance I wouldn't give a toss about watching Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston unless it had been supported by a storyline and decent promos to explain why this match is important and why I should care who wins.  In comparison, they can line up a match like the first meeting between Kenta Kobashi and Kensuke Sasaki at Destiny in 2005, and I want to see the match so badly purely because I've seen many great matches the two have had with many other guys, and I want to see the match to see how it is between them and I'm interested in who is the better man. Actually, the personal interest in that match with their past history and status, and "who is better" factor was pretty similar to how I looked forward to Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle the same year.  The other thing is about caring who wins - for me, the biggest factor in enjoying a pro wrestling match of any kind - and in Puro I developed favourites over the years in all the big companies, and that helps. You couldnt just throw yourself into it new and expect to give a shit immediately, it takes a while, but it's certainly been worthwhile. Arguably that side of my fandom has endured in Puro whereas it wanes in the US, big style, depending on how my favourites are being booked.  Yeah the language barrier gets me a bit  I've never let that bother me....  I'd love to have been around and following AJPW in the 90's, admittedly I'd have to have lived there, curses.  ...nor would I particularly agree with that, because...  Kobashi defeating Misawa in 03 was HUGE because he never pinned Misawa for a singles title at that point.  ... the build towards that match had me incredibly excited despite not speaking the language and living in Wales, because I knew what it meant and I was extremely into answering if Kobashi could take Mitsy down, and if he would get that (probably) last chance to lead a company, even if I assumed either was only holding it until they got their faith in Akiyama back. When my mate had his tape (!!) of Navigate For Evolution delivered, we sat around the tellybox with a beer and crisps just as though it was WrestleMania, and it was joyous. For Puro fans keeping track, thats the same mate I'm going to the Fire Festival and G1 Climax finals with in August.  In conclusion.... OK, I've said nowt further on the five star match debate, and I'm pretty sure no-one who is firmly into only American or only Puro would be any more tempted to give the other a sustained try. But sometimes you just have to say what's on your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It's possibly hard to explain, but while for instance I wouldn't give a toss about watching Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston unless it had been supported by a storyline and decent promos to explain why this match is important and why I should care who wins. There's more chance of them having a fucking hoverboard race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted June 24, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 Not one 5* WCW match after they broke away from NWA? Now I haven't seen anywhere as much WCW as most of the guys on here, but surely there were some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted June 24, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 Not one 5* WCW match after they broke away from NWA? Now I haven't seen anywhere as much WCW as most of the guys on here, but surely there were some? Â Didnt he go the whole hog on Eddy G v Rey Jr at Havoc '97? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted June 24, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 Not one 5* WCW match after they broke away from NWA? Now I haven't seen anywhere as much WCW as most of the guys on here, but surely there were some? Â Didnt he go the whole hog on Eddy G v Rey Jr at Havoc '97? Nope, I couldn't see it on the list. The last WCW 5* match was War Games 92. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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