Wrestling Observer 5 star matches

[PowerButchi]

I saw that 6 man tag match from ROH a couple of years ago. As a gymnastics display it was fine. As a wrestling match it's one of the stupidest you could ever ask to see.

 

Absolutely. Now Orton vs. HHH from Mania 25 should have a been a five star match. Best punch and kick match ever

 

STEEN - RICHARDS IS THE FLAIR - STEAMBOAT OF OUR TIME.

 

 

If you could gibbet people online for fucking spack statements it would have been when DDD claimed Black Richards was the Flair Steamboat of this generation without realising why Flair Steamboat in '89 was what it was.

 

Meltzer has never liked WWF/WWE though. Going through his old newsletters from the mid 80's he's all about Mid-South. And their styles were so separate. Mid South is what Meltz would have liked it to be, and WWF/E is a mile away from it.

 

 

I'd love to see Dearly Devoted Dexter actually bother to answer someone instead of posting a snide comment then fucking off and never responding again ever.

 

Well he thinks no-one reads the roh thread so he'll reply in there in a snide way thinking you'll never read it.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

He said in the WrestleMania III newsletter than the only main event program he could see coming out of the event was Savage vs Steamboat. He even gave Andre and Hogan a -**** rating and said it should have went on before Savage and Steamboat. I dont get the criteria of the stars. Al Snow's Guest Booker has a quote about star ratings. He basically said, the best worker is Dave Meltzer because he's worked people into thinking that a rating system can actually be possible when judging a fake fight. It goes back to his comments in the original post actually. He says you work is based on the money you draw or what a promoter wants you to do and isnt a scoring contest and shouldnt be anally picked apart. He's spot on when you think about it. I dont think any of the WWF's biggest money matches ever drew five stars.

 

I never liked star ratings personally. I like King Mable vs Davey Boy Smith from an episode of WWF Superstars back in the day, but I dont like it as much as Bret vs Austin or something. You like what you like. You just like and dislike certain things more. If I was rating matches, Doink vs Marty Jannetty would have gotten about 10 stars when I was watching it on Mania in 1993. Bret Hart vs Bob Backlund from Survivor Series would get -11 stars. Not because I think its abysmal, but it was so boring, I'd never be arsed to sit through it again.

[PowerButchi]

What did Meltz give Hogan Savage and Rock Austin II? And to give Andre Hogan that is fucking idiotic. It's a quality match. It's Clash of the Titans. It tells a great story and even builds future shots with the near fall early. Meltzer's problem with WWF/E over the years is sad as shit.

[PowerButchi]

Bret Hart vs Bob Backlund from Survivor Series would get -11 stars. Not because I think its abysmal, but it was so boring, I'd never be arsed to sit through it again.

 

Gets even less from me. Overlong, and dull as shite. A Millennia of Bret in the Chicken Wing and Owen's shite acting isn't exactly Barry Windham vs Too Cold Scorpio.

[BionicRedneck]

Bob Backlund was fucking great. A million stars because Mr. Backlund is involved.

 

And if we are going to get pissy about WWF/E matches not being given 5*, start with Rock/Austin at Mania 17. That's probably the best match in company history, and certainly better than any Michaels/Taker match I've seen.

[PowerButchi]

And if we are going to get pissy about WWF/E matches not being given 5*, start with Rock/Austin at Mania 17. That's probably the best match in company history

 

I'm well going to kick off now about the Mr Perfect vs Ric Flair loser leaves town.

[The King Of Swing]

Don't forget Bret Hart Vs Mr. Perfect classic from KotR 1993 which I personally rate higher then their SummerSlam 1991 match.

 

I personally wouldn't give Toyoyta Vs. Yamada ***** it's a cracking little match but I don't think it lives upto the rating.

[number1davidotungafan]

I think Herb must get in Dave's mouth for some of these picks.

[fraserbee]

He said in the WrestleMania III newsletter than the only main event program he could see coming out of the event was Savage vs Steamboat. He even gave Andre and Hogan a -**** rating and said it should have went on before Savage and Steamboat. I dont get the criteria of the stars. Al Snow's Guest Booker has a quote about star ratings. He basically said, the best worker is Dave Meltzer because he's worked people into thinking that a rating system can actually be possible when judging a fake fight. It goes back to his comments in the original post actually. He says you work is based on the money you draw or what a promoter wants you to do and isnt a scoring contest and shouldnt be anally picked apart. He's spot on when you think about it. I dont think any of the WWF's biggest money matches ever drew five stars.

 

I never liked star ratings personally. I like King Mable vs Davey Boy Smith from an episode of WWF Superstars back in the day, but I dont like it as much as Bret vs Austin or something. You like what you like. You just like and dislike certain things more. If I was rating matches, Doink vs Marty Jannetty would have gotten about 10 stars when I was watching it on Mania in 1993. Bret Hart vs Bob Backlund from Survivor Series would get -11 stars. Not because I think its abysmal, but it was so boring, I'd never be arsed to sit through it again.

I can't add anything to this post - I agree 100%.

[air_raid]

<ears prick up>

 

Someone mentioned my favourite match ever. I must go there and make comment.

 

Benoit vs Angle at RR2003 only got ****3/4.

 

Four and three quarter stars? What did he knock that all important quarter star off for? Unflattering ring attire?

 

Here's a thought - if I want to play devil's advocate, a five star match (if you want to use star ratings, which I'm not overly keen on myself), then they must apply to the match being PERFECT. What makes up a perfect match might be up for debate but I'd try and classify it as "flawless" i.e. nothing to complain about.

 

The complaint with Angle/Benoit might be suspension of disbelief. The build surrounding that Royal Rumble made it undeniably obvious that WMXIX would be headlined by Angle/Lesnar for the title. In fact, even going back to the summer months there was plenty of speculation that Angle/Lesnar was a WrestleMania match (if not main event) and this was strengthened further by the fact they never had a televised match leading up to the winter/spring months. As a result, no one gave Benoit a dog's chance in hell of winning. I was a massive Benoit fan, and I knew he was not going to win. 100% nailed on knew it.

 

The match itself is superb, well executed and exciting, but someone theoretically could classify it as "not PERFECT" if they never really buy into the fact Benoit might win.

 

The reason it's my favourite match and a nailed on ***** is because as a result of the build of the match, the timing of the near falls and teased submissions, especially the timing of Benoit's Crossface attempts/Angle reaching the ropes, when Benoit applies the final Crossface right in the middle of the ring, my disbelief was utterly suspended. As were, I suspect, many of the "smarts" in the live crowd. When the Crippler applied his hold to our Olympic Hero right in the middle of the ring during the closing stretch of that match, logic abandoned me, I forgot all about Brock Lesnar and WrestleMania and totally gave into the moment, and the mark inside me "knew" he was about to win! Kurt was about to tap, and Chris Benoit was going to be motherfucking champion!

 

He didn't, of course. And after my heart stopped racing, I felt a bit daft for falling for it. But I was blown away, because the performances of the two wrestlers made me totally buy into it. So to me, it was a perfect match.

 

In a similar vein, I couldn't give the same accolade to HBK/Undertaker from last year because as well built as the match had been, I at no point thought Shawn would win, so couldnt get that excited about it. That, and the fact I thought the first Tombstone on the floor was overkill and stupid that Shawn didn't get counted out from being unconscious and nearly dead, and that him kicking out of the second one in the ring was stupid.

[Loki]

You're a good lad, air_raid, that's my favourite match too, though it was one of a whole bunch of unbelievably good matches they had. I loved their Submissions match as well, and all the matches when they played the odd-couple tag team, and everything to do with that feud to be fair.

 

At the point in time, I think Angle was untouchable as a performer. He got a great match out of Hogan, a great match out of Kane as well IIRC. The key was that his anklelock was THE submission move, and everyone tapped. Even Hogan. So when he got you into that, you were done.

 

It's just a transition for him now. I can understand why, and why he's using the AngleSlam as his finisher, but it's still a pity.

[Devon Malcolm]

I'd love to see Dearly Devoted Dexter actually bother to answer someone instead of posting a snide comment then fucking off and never responding again ever.

 

He doesn't like to debate. That's where he gets shown that he's wrong. He's an utter gimp.

[Deaq]

Getting a 5 star match in the Observer is not going to pay the bills now is it?. If there was a match of the night bonus in wrestling shows can you picture how the structure of the show would fall to bits? You get sent out there to do a job if the promoter thinks you doing that job thats all you need.

[TheBigBoot]

What did Meltz give Hogan Savage and Rock Austin II?

 

**3/4 and ****1/2 respectively.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

**3/4 and ****1/2 respectively.

**3/4 for that class match at WrestleMania V? Fuck that. It was class. Does he take stars off for storytelling, money drawing and crowd reaction?