Killjoy_Gee Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 You know what's really sad? I believe you. Â It is sad, I realise this, but I was completely overcome... Â We tend to start our own chants in the living room during our matches, or create signs on a pad of paper based on whats occuring.... Â Again, sad, but I don't care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 22, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 It is sad, I realise this, but I was completely overcome... Completely overcome by someone elses opinion of the match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killjoy_Gee Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Completely overcome by someone elses opinion of the match?  No... overcome by surprise at Punk winning  Sorry, should have made that clear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Maestro Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I thought it was a great match and its the best thing WWE have done in ages, probably one of the best matches the company has had in 10 years from anyone not named Shawn Michaels, however most of the match was built on Punk and without Punk, Cena doesn't have that great of a match. Its not like John didnt make his usual mistakes in that match, its just that the crowd were so hot and begging for a Punk win it didnt matter. Â Agreed. Â The match was absolutely quality, but it was all about Punk and the crowd. Don't get me wrong, Cena wasn't useless during it, but it's not like he was equal to Punk during the match. My missus watched it with me and she noticed little things that Cena was sluggish with. For a non-wrestling fan to notice these kind of things speaks volumes as to who is the better performer. But yeah, it was great. Best emotional investment in a match for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 22, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 The match was absolutely quality, but it was all about Punk and the crowd. Don't get me wrong, Cena wasn't useless during it, but it's not like he was equal to Punk during the match. My missus watched it with me and she noticed little things that Cena was sluggish with. For a non-wrestling fan to notice these kind of things speaks volumes as to who is the better performer. But yeah, it was great. Best emotional investment in a match for years. Thats such bollocks. I must have missed Lawz saying all that. You dont have a match that good on your own. In the fucked up world of Cena hate, Cena becomes the antagonist in a match like that. So the whole build and psychology of the match is whether Punk can over come the man who never gets beat in situations like this. You take away Cena and the threat that he could win the match at anytime (like he usually does) and you only have a hot crowd and a hometown hero. There's been millions of matches where one of the people in the match was incredibly popular. That isnt what makes the match quality though. The timing of Cena and Punk on the false finishes, the teasing of their patented moves, the way they switched between who was in control was world class by both. It was a dance. I'm not the biggest Cena fan in the world. He's alright in my book, but he's not my favourite, but what match are people watching when they say it was all CM Punk? Replace Cena with Randy Orton or Kane and your not getting a match of that quality. The whole psychology of the match was the Franchise player vs. the hometown hero who was going to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killjoy_Gee Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Thats such bollocks. I must have missed Lawz saying all that. You dont have a match that good on your own. In the fucked up world of Cena hate, Cena becomes the antagonist in a match like that. So the whole build and psychology of the match is whether Punk can over come the man who never gets beat in situations like this. You take away Cena and the threat that he could win the match at anytime (like he usually does) and you only have a hot crowd and a hometown hero. There's been millions of matches where one of the people in the match was incredibly popular. That isnt what makes the match quality though. The timing of Cena and Punk on the false finishes, the teasing of their patented moves, the way they switched between who was in control was world class by both. It was a dance. I'm not the biggest Cena fan in the world. He's alright in my book, but he's not my favourite, but what match are people watching when they say it was all CM Punk? Replace Cena with Randy Orton or Kane and your not getting a match of that quality. The whole psychology of the match was the Franchise player vs. the hometown hero who was going to leave.  I totally agree with you on all of this  My one problem with the match isn't even to do with the wrestlers, it was Scott Armstrong as referee. He does that stupid hand wave with each count, so every count is longer than another referee. For him, a two count is another refs three count. It just disrupts the drama. My housemate still maintains that he ruined the drama of HHH/Taker at 'Mania 27 because you knew it was never going to be a three count. I feel she has a point... It bugged me to no end during Punk/Cena. Although, as far as gripes go, it's very low on the list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted July 22, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 My one problem with the match isn't even to do with the wrestlers, it was Scott Armstrong as referee. He does that stupid hand wave with each count, so every count is longer than another referee. Â But... surely if he's consistent with the count throughout the match, then it doesn't matter? Â I didnt notice Armstrong during Trips/Taker, and I only noticed him in the Cena/Punk match because of his history of Montreal rehash finishes in Punk matches, and the undertones that Vince would plot something similar to stop Punk winning. Â From bell to bell I paid him no attention, because the action and crowd reaction was such that I didnt notice him. If you did notice him, or that he does a hand wave, you're paying too much attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 22, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Scott Armstrong was the best worker in the match ... because he's an Armstrong! Better workers than the Harts, better looking than the Von Erichs and smarter than the McMahons. Bullet Bob lost his nose and finished a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Maestro Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Thats such bollocks. I must have missed Lawz saying all that. You dont have a match that good on your own. In the fucked up world of Cena hate, Cena becomes the antagonist in a match like that. So the whole build and psychology of the match is whether Punk can over come the man who never gets beat in situations like this. You take away Cena and the threat that he could win the match at anytime (like he usually does) and you only have a hot crowd and a hometown hero. There's been millions of matches where one of the people in the match was incredibly popular. That isnt what makes the match quality though. The timing of Cena and Punk on the false finishes, the teasing of their patented moves, the way they switched between who was in control was world class by both. It was a dance. I'm not the biggest Cena fan in the world. He's alright in my book, but he's not my favourite, but what match are people watching when they say it was all CM Punk? Replace Cena with Randy Orton or Kane and your not getting a match of that quality. The whole psychology of the match was the Franchise player vs. the hometown hero who was going to leave. Â Of course the match wouldn't have been the same with Kane or Randy Orton because they don't get the same reaction from the crowd as Cena does. And I'm not taking anything away from the psychology of the match at all. Cena more than played his part in that. But he did miss spots and his wrestling style still comes across as very fumbling. For example, there was a point in the match where Punk went to do a cross body off the top rope and Cena stood there like a tool and the move was slight botched. It didn't ruin the match because there was so much good about it, but these things are still noticable. Â It may seem like I'm unfairly criticising the match, but I'm not at all. It was fantastic and had more emotion in it than any match that I've seen for a while. It's quite easy to feel jaded regarding wrestling in 2011, but this was a a big reason to fall in love with wresling again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 22, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 But he did miss spots and his wrestling style still comes across as very fumbling. Â And CM Punk fell on his arse once instead of landing on his feet and undershot a cross body. It's wrestling, these things happen. They were both guilty of it but it does not take away from the fact they both put on a fantastic performance. Both of them. Â It wasn't Punk vs a Broomstick, and it's either naive or just being awkward to say so. They both earned the high mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 22, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Cena more than played his part in that. But he did miss spots and his wrestling style still comes across as very fumbling. For example, there was a point in the match where Punk went to do a cross body off the top rope and Cena stood there like a tool and the move was slight botched. It didn't ruin the match because there was so much good about it, but these things are still noticable. Well, CM Punk almost knocked Cena out or damaged his neck when he stiffed him on a knee drop from the top rope onto his neck. But shit happens, mistakes happen, botches happen. It should take nothing away from the enjoyment or credit of the performers in the ring. You said "it was all about Punk", now your saying it wouldnt be the same without Cena. I think credit should be served to people who are due it. Wrestling is about drama, emotional connection and enjoyment. Cena and Punk gave us all that. Cena standing there when a cross body was coming (something I didnt notice at all watching it) means so little, its pointless bringing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members martyngnr Posted July 22, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Hilarious. Cena more than held his own in that match, infact seeing as the anti-Cena brigade are nitpicking I think it would be more than fair to say that in terms of mistimed moves, botches and clumsy potato-ing Punk was far more guilty of this than Cena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Maestro Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 And CM Punk fell on his arse once instead of landing on his feet and undershot a cross body. It's wrestling, these things happen. They were both guilty of it but it does not take away from the fact they both put on a fantastic performance. Both of them. It wasn't Punk vs a Broomstick, and it's either naive or just being awkward to say so. They both earned the high mark.  It's not like John Cena was just sat in the middle of the ring slobbering on himself while Punk blasted him with kicks, Cena did put in a good shift. But he still looked wooden on the odd occasion. It didn't really affect my enjoyment of the match (maybe as it's just something that I've become used to with Cena), but it was noticable. What made the match was the psychology of it and the red hot crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 22, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 And Punk was throwing a potato harvest in parts which is as bad as being wooden. Actually, when and how was Cena wooden? I didn't really notice it. It didn't affect the match anyway. They were both superb. Punk AND Cena. Cena's proven over the past 6 years he has a good head for match psychology, and the crowd wouldn't have been red hot without Cena being Cena. They both get 50/50 credit. It wasn't as if it was a Flair vs El Gigante carryjob or anything, they are both very capable wrestlers and they proved that, and it needs to be appreciated for both men. Â Why people struggle so much to give Cena real credit puzzles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted July 22, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Cena earned at least * for that right hook on Laurinities. Â Cena will never win. He has one of the best matches ever, and people still don't give him the credit he (and Punk) deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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