UFC 127: Penn vs Fitch Discussion thread

[Supremo]

Reports are that Fitch has finally got a clue and doesn't plan on fighting like a boring twat anymore. I guess we'll see if that's true or not.

Overlooking his loss to GSP, Fitch hasn't lost for almost nine years. I'd say that whatever he's doing at present is working just fine for him.

Then why isn't he getting a title shot despite winning what was emphatically declared a number one contender's fight against Alves? And why didn't the UFC give him a post-fight interview after he won that supposedly important fight? It's because being a boring fighter doesn't cut it in the UFC. Sure, not losing will keep you employed thanks to the way their contracts are structured, but until you start having exciting fights then you're always one loss away from being cut. At the end of the day, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the UFC is in the business of putting on fights that people want to see and if you're a fighter who's style puts people off from watching you then you're not doing what they require of you.

 

And that isn't a personal opinion, it's fact. This is a company that gives bonuses to people who finish fights, keeps exciting fighters under contract even after multiple losses and cuts guys like Gerald Harris because they've had a bad fight, regardless of their record. All Fitch has done has found this strange middle ground between being boring, but talented enough to never lose, meaning they can neither fire him nor put the spotlight on him. He's completely plateaued.

 

But hey, don't take my word for it, take Fitch's himself, before you go supporting him. Even he's eventually realised it! In these two interviews with the Los Angeles Times, he gave the following quotes;

 

“If I’ve failed to convince the UFC, Dana White and the fans that I’m overwhelmingly the No. 1 contender and that I absolutely should be fighting for the belt, then I take that as my own responsibility. It’s my own fault. If people are dissatisfied, then I’m going to correct that.”

 

"My only thinking is that if I’m not overwhelmingly, in the fans’ opinion, the guy who deserves it, then I have to win them over. It kind of was a little bit of a revelation. There wasn’t an overwhelming rush of support after the Alves fight. That was kind of eye opening. I handily beat the No. 3 (guy) in the world, and people are still not willing to thrust me into competition with GSP. Something’s missing.”

 

"It comes down to making money. If they don’t think they can make money off you, then they’re not going to give you those fights.”

 

“I’m not really trying to live up to anybody else’s expectations, but I have a few expectations for myself, and I think that’s going to result in more fights that end with finishes...The purpose of these fights is to finish your opponent, not just out-position them.”

 

Then,

he's admitting that he's, "failed," in the, "business of selling fights," and that he has a responsibility to, "step it up," and "turn it all around," by showing more fire, "smashing," his opponents and ultimately finishing.

 

So yeah, what he's doing at present isn't working just fine for him, which even he himself is admitting to. And I wouldn't want to disgaree with Jon Fitch. He might lie on top of you for fifteen minutes.

[pryko]

JON FITCH FTW BITCHES!!!!!

[Dead Mike]

It's a real shame the UFC panders to the knuckle draggers shouting for 'da knockoutz'. Fitch is great mixed martial artist. If people think his fights are 'boring' I'd suggest them checking out Toughman Competition's or just youtube a load of Kimbo & Tank Abbot fights.

[Ghostface1982]

So yeah, what he's doing at present isn't working just fine for him, which even he himself is admitting to. And I wouldn't want to disgaree with Jon Fitch. He might lie on top of you for fifteen minutes.

Holding someone down (especially someone who is trained on the ground) for 15 minutes isn't an easy task, I'd like to see you try it.

[tiger_rick]

So yeah, what he's doing at present isn't working just fine for him, which even he himself is admitting to. And I wouldn't want to disgaree with Jon Fitch. He might lie on top of you for fifteen minutes.

Holding someone down (especially someone who is trained on the ground) for 15 minutes isn't an easy task, I'd like to see you try it.

It's not something anyone wants to see either. Plenty of fighters are exciting on the ground so it' not just moron's wanting Knockouts. People pay good money to see a fight. UFC get it fortunately.

[pryko]

Every fight starts standing, so every guy has the opportunity to knock him out if he's so bad.

 

When Fitch takes you down, every guy has every right to try a submission, and submit Fitch if they can.

 

If they can't do either. Jon Fitch is better than them.

[The Cum Doctor]

I always thought there was no such thing as sports entertainment, but I guess I was wrong about that.

[Ghostface1982]

So yeah, what he's doing at present isn't working just fine for him, which even he himself is admitting to. And I wouldn't want to disgaree with Jon Fitch. He might lie on top of you for fifteen minutes.

Holding someone down (especially someone who is trained on the ground) for 15 minutes isn't an easy task, I'd like to see you try it.

It's not something anyone wants to see either. Plenty of fighters are exciting on the ground so it' not just moron's wanting Knockouts. People pay good money to see a fight. UFC get it fortunately.

Watching a wrestler at work is entertaining in my eyes, it can be just as entertaining as watching a good Jiu Jitsu fighter work well off his back.

 

Every fight starts standing, so every guy has the opportunity to knock him out if he's so bad.

 

When Fitch takes you down, every guy has every right to try a submission, and submit Fitch if they can.

 

If they can't do either. Jon Fitch is better than them.

Indeed, if Fitch is inactive on the floor he should be stood back up. So if the fight is that boring then the refs should be at fault for allowing Fitch "to hold someone down for 15 minutes"

[Dead Mike]

It's not something anyone wants to see either. Plenty of fighters are exciting on the ground so it' not just moron's wanting Knockouts. People pay good money to see a fight. UFC get it fortunately.

 

Here's me thinking people bought a ticket to watch MMA, which unfortunately for them include wrestling, bjj & other disciplines which cause the meatheads to start booing & shouting for the ref's to stand them up. The fact the UFC are pretty much encouraging this means the people getting the title shots aren't the best fighters in their class. Just the people who are willing to fight the way the organisation tells them.

[pryko]

Taken from the Bleacher Report

 

Jon Fitch must fight his own game in the best way that he can.

 

And no, he doesn't have to finish to please the hordes of lay and pray witch-hunters who belong to the vanguard of the instant gratification school of spectatorship.

 

But if he does, well and good. (Curiously though, and this is one of the ironies of the combat sports, the more a fighter itches and obsesses for that crowd-pleasing finish, the more elusive it gets. Conversely, the more he sticks to the game plan and goes with the flow, the likelier it happens. And was Maynard spent after he went gung-ho over that teasing knockout in his first championship round in UFC 125!)

 

If he doesn

[Supremo]

So yeah, what he's doing at present isn't working just fine for him, which even he himself is admitting to. And I wouldn't want to disgaree with Jon Fitch. He might lie on top of you for fifteen minutes.

Holding someone down (especially someone who is trained on the ground) for 15 minutes isn't an easy task, I'd like to see you try it.

I usually only last about three minutes. Unless I think of my dead nan or something.

 

It's not something anyone wants to see either. Plenty of fighters are exciting on the ground so it' not just moron's wanting Knockouts. People pay good money to see a fight. UFC get it fortunately.

This. Precisely.

 

Watching a wrestler at work is entertaining in my eyes, it can be just as entertaining as watching a good Jiu Jitsu fighter work well off his back.

You might like it, but the general public don't. If you don't please the general public, you go out of business.

 

It's not something anyone wants to see either. Plenty of fighters are exciting on the ground so it' not just moron's wanting Knockouts. People pay good money to see a fight. UFC get it fortunately.

 

Here's me thinking people bought a ticket to watch MMA, which unfortunately for them include wrestling, bjj & other disciplines which cause the meatheads to start booing & shouting for the ref's to stand them up. The fact the UFC are pretty much encouraging this means the people getting the title shots aren't the best fighters in their class. Just the people who are willing to fight the way the organisation tells them.

The UFC isn't encouraging people to stand and bang. They're encouraging people to have exciting fights and finish. You can have an exciting fight and finish on the ground just as easily as you can on your feet. Just look at that George Sotiropoulos vs. Joe Stevenson fight. Dana, like everyone else, loved that fight, and it was hardly two guys going for the knock-out, was it?

 

And ultimately, anyone moaning about the UFC promoting like this needs to remember what happened to all the other organisations that didn't. They all went out of business because they didn't get it and they didn't give the public what it wants. It's a simple reality, whether you like it or not, and in the end everyone comes to realise it, even Jon Fitch.

[tiger_rick]

I always thought there was no such thing as sports entertainment, but I guess I was wrong about that.

You can't have ever watched UFC if you didn't know they are in the entertainment business. As much as it's a legitimate sport, it takes it's booking approach from pro-wrestling.

[Ghostface1982]

So yeah, what he's doing at present isn't working just fine for him, which even he himself is admitting to. And I wouldn't want to disgaree with Jon Fitch. He might lie on top of you for fifteen minutes.

Holding someone down (especially someone who is trained on the ground) for 15 minutes isn't an easy task, I'd like to see you try it.

I usually only last about three minutes. Unless I think of my dead nan or something.

Your wit astounds me

 

You might like it, but the general public don't. If you don't please the general public, you go out of business.

Most people don't like it because they don't understand it. I've been at shows and heard idiots use phrases like "cuddling" to describe the ground game.

[Dead Mike]

And ultimately, anyone moaning about the UFC promoting like this needs to remember what happened to all the other organisations that didn't. They all went out of business because they didn't get it and they didn't give the public what it wants.

 

Bollocks. The UFC have arguably got the best promotional tools in the game. Their hype videos, countdown programmes etc are excellent. They made people on here, who are usually good posters in the MMA thread think that Kimbo had a good chance of becoming a top contender ffs. How easy would it be to hype a fight featuring a guy who's single loss in years is to GSP?? Chael Sonnen's never finished a fight in his entire UFC career yet with a few snappy lines & entertaining press conferences they hyped up the Silva fight to massive success.

Selling fights to people involving fighters with great records is much easier than convincing people that a mediocre fighter is a threat

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

The UFC isn't encouraging people to stand and bang. They're encouraging people to have exciting fights and finish. You can have an exciting fight and finish on the ground just as easily as you can on your feet. Just look at that George Sotiropoulos vs. Joe Stevenson fight. Dana, like everyone else, loved that fight, and it was hardly two guys going for the knock-out, was it?

 

And ultimately, anyone moaning about the UFC promoting like this needs to remember what happened to all the other organisations that didn't. They all went out of business because they didn't get it and they didn't give the public what it wants. It's a simple reality, whether you like it or not, and in the end everyone comes to realise it, even Jon Fitch.

Exactly. The Sotiropoulos vs Stevenson fight was great because Sot was constantly working to advance position, strike and lock in subs. Contrast that to Fitch's laying there, throwing one punch every 20 seconds to prevent a stand up, and rarely advancing position. That's not fighting, it's just point scoring. I'd love to see Fitch prove me wrong and be aggressive. Second PPV main event for Fitch, right? Let's see him fight like a main event guy. Look at GSP. He dominates in a similar way, often going to decision, but at least he makes his fights exciting.