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UFC 127: Penn vs Fitch Discussion thread


wandshogun09

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Yeah you've got a point there. Even the Quarry stoppage wasn't that impressive when you consider Quarry is on the decline and considering retirement.

 

I'd say Akiyama, Kang, Dan Miller , Leben are all a higher calibre than Rivera and Bisping beat all of them without too much trouble. I'd expect the same here but the point I was making was the way he's talking about Rivera being a 'journeyman', saying he should 'run through him' and stuff, even if true isn't really a healthy attitude heading into a fight imo. It seems like he's kinda looking past him. Then again it could just as easily just be all trash talk to make Rivera think he's taking him lightly. We'll find out Saturday night.

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I personally think Bisping is taking Rivera lightly, but Rivera's actions will get Bisping up for this fight and he should in theory "run through him" because of that. My money is on Bisping, maybe even by stoppage

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That's a good read, thanks. I've copied it here for anyone who wishes to read it;

 

One of the great things about mixed martial arts is the diversity of styles it offers. Some fighters like to stand up and strike, others look to go to the ground as quickly as possible, and some of us put it all together and feel comfortable wherever the fight goes. I have always prided myself on being well-rounded, well-conditioned, durable and able to break the will of my opponent.

 

I think that because I bring so many tools to the table, a lot of my opponents don't know where I'm going to go and more often than not concede to the fact that I will overwhelm them. It's very hard dealing with more than one thing at any one time, and I always make sure I'm bringing multiple threats into a fight. I never just rely on one skill or discipline to win a fight.

 

Also, you can't expect to overwhelm me with just one thing. I will quickly look to stop that one threat and then ask you to bring something else. If you haven't got anything else to offer, then that's when I take over and make my own skills count. I have a lot of tools to go through and make it a long night for you.

 

A lot of people label me as a 'grinder', and I was actually the one that started throwing the term out there to begin with. I did a lot of interviews a few years back and people would always ask me what my style was. The most obvious phrase to use to sum up my style was a 'grinder'. I go out there and I grind you down. I put you through a meat grinder and make sure you never feel the same once you've been through it.

 

It may not look as pretty as a surgeon who goes out there and cuts an opponent's head off, but it's no less effective. I will pulverize you and take the time to beat you into a bloody mess. If it takes three rounds to do that, I will enjoy every minute of it.

 

In addition to this grinding, I'm most definitely a thinker and always think my way through fights. I'm not just going out there and beating someone up. That's not how I function. If you fight like that, you'll only end up getting caught and defeated. I'm thinking about every position and every technique at all times, no matter how on top it appears I am. I don't just run out there like a berzerker and look to overwhelm my opponent. I'm constantly setting traps and planning the bigger picture. Even if you think you're getting the better of me, chances are I'm only setting you up for a big fall.

 

The criticism I sometimes get for the way I fight never affects me too much. I know I'm going through a transitional phase right now and a few growing pains are to be expected. These last five fights since the title shot haven't been perfect, but the growing pains are necessary to get where I eventually want to be. I need those experiences to be the fighter I want to be.

 

Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to take a leap forward. I believe that is what I have done in recent fights and I believe that in the next couple of fights you will definitely see that leap forward. It might not have been pretty before, but everything is coming together now and I'm starting to realize just how vital these last few fights have been in my overall development.

 

When Tiger Woods was at the top of his game, they one day decided to change his golf swing and he started losing. After a while that new golf swing began to click and Tiger started smashing everybody again and was even better than before. It just took him a little while to adapt to the changes and trust the direction he was going in.

 

I'm in exactly the same position right now. I trust where I'm going and never expected it to be easy or pretty. So long as I get there in the end, that's all that matters and that's all people will remember...

The part I've bolded pretty much sums up Fitch for me, and why I think he's simply a terrific MMA competitor. He's getting progressively better with every fight, and hopefully he'll continue to improve.

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its kind of weird how Jorge Rivera's got himself into this position...i'd say his status as a high level journeyman was pretty much fixed. He was likely going to be cut if he'd lost the Nissen Osterneck fight, but he gutted it out barely won, but since has gone on a little bit of a run. I don't really see how a fight falling apart with Alesio Sakara means you end up getting a fight with Michael Bisping as co-main on a major show, but Rivera to his credit has taken the ball and run with it.

 

Ive also been pretty surprised by how many people are thinking Rivera's going to win...Michael Bisping has taken care of pretty much everyone outside of the superstars he's fought (i think it's a mental hurdle he needs to overcome), and i think he should quite handily take care of Rivera. A stoppage win is what he needs though, Bisping's one of these guys that the fans (i think unfairly) give shit too because he doesn't finish every fight.

 

It'll be a tough watch because im a fan of both guys, but i am looking forward to it.

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Fitch can defend his fighting style all he wants, it's effective and wins him fights, but the fact remains that he is consistently in the most boring fights on the card and hasn't finished a fight since 2007. As a fan, that's lethargic to watch.

Again, it all comes down to what you want to see, doesn't it? If every fight on the card was simply two guys trying to knock each other out it wouldn't be long before we'd be bored of that. I know that I would be.

 

The UFC are excellent at giving us a mix of everything, with something that will appeal to everyone. Look at the rest of that card.

 

Bisping vs Rivera will be a classic match between the stand-up slugger and the fast, skilled puncher with great footwork.

 

Siver vs Sotiropoulos will hopefully be another showcase of George's groundskills.

 

I don't think a fight featuring Chris Lytle needs any kind of explanation, does it? We know what he's going to be coming to do.

 

The penn vs Fitch fight is going to be exciting simply because we'll more than likely have Fitch trying to grind Penn down, taking advantage of being the bigger man on the night, whilst Penn will be looking to utilise his good stand-up, and his phenomenal BJJ skills if it goes to the ground.

 

Can he catch Fitch in a submission and be the first man to make him tap in almost a decade? Or can he be the first to stop him in almost as long again?

 

Excellent stuff.

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yeh i'll be honest that Jon Fitch has tested my patience in the past, but it's sometimes more to do with his opponents as well as him...if someone can't stop Fitch from doing his thing, it's tough shit. Jon Fitch is capable of having exciting fights, it's just he needs someone to have one with him. If Fitch can dominate someone it's tough shit.

 

Clay Guida is similar in that if he's able to dominate his fights have been a little boring, but if someone can come in there and stop Guida doing it then you usually end up having a great fight because Guida won't stop trying to get it to where he wants it.

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oh great job again by the UFC showing prelims :)

 

they are showing 2 on facebook (Quan/Reinhardt, Perosh/Blackledge) again and have another 2 going on ION TV (Pearson/Fisher, Ta Huna/Gustaffson) brilliant stuff, more fights make me happy.

 

I'm assuming we'll get the ION TV portion on ESPN so we're guaranteed the Gustaffson fight which should be a good one)

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oh great job again by the UFC showing prelims :)

 

they are showing 2 on facebook (Quan/Reinhardt, Perosh/Blackledge) again and have another 2 going on ION TV (Pearson/Fisher, Ta Huna/Gustaffson) brilliant stuff, more fights make me happy.

 

I'm assuming we'll get the ION TV portion on ESPN so we're guaranteed the Gustaffson fight which should be a good one)

 

That's great, Gustafsson vs Te Huna was the one I wanted. That's gonna be a wild fight, someone's bound to be kissing canvas in that one.

 

I'll give the facebook fights a watch too. Be nice to see Blackledge in the big leagues.

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yeh i'll be honest that Jon Fitch has tested my patience in the past, but it's sometimes more to do with his opponents as well as him...if someone can't stop Fitch from doing his thing, it's tough shit. Jon Fitch is capable of having exciting fights, it's just he needs someone to have one with him. If Fitch can dominate someone it's tough shit.

 

Clay Guida is similar in that if he's able to dominate his fights have been a little boring, but if someone can come in there and stop Guida doing it then you usually end up having a great fight because Guida won't stop trying to get it to where he wants it.

 

That's a good comparison actually. Clay's been in some of the greatest MMA fights ever but he's come off on the losing end of most of 'em (Huerta/Sanchez/Griffin). Fitch has a similar relentless style but doesn't allow himself to get dragged into wars and when you compare his success to Guida's it's obvious who is the smarter fighter.

 

It depends how a fighter wants to be remembered I suppose. Some guys are more driven by winning at all costs (GSP/Fitch) and some fighters priorities lie with having great fights (Wanderlei/Lytle). Of course everyone would like to win but for some guys not at the expense of being boring. Guida falls on the border line imo, in that he seems to be becoming more of a GSP/Fitch type focused on getting the win at any cost but if the fight gets ugly he reverts back to his old style. I can see Pettis making it a war with Clay.

 

I'd much rather watch the best of Clay Guida than the best of Jon Fitch but you can't argue with success. And to be fair Fitch has had some cracking fights in the past (Sanchez/Carneiro).

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Fitch can defend his fighting style all he wants, it's effective and wins him fights, but the fact remains that he is consistently in the most boring fights on the card and hasn't finished a fight since 2007. As a fan, that's lethargic to watch.

Again, it all comes down to what you want to see, doesn't it? If every fight on the card was simply two guys trying to knock each other out it wouldn't be long before we'd be bored of that. I know that I would be.

I'm not against Fitch because he uses the ground game, or because he doesn't KO people like Rampage, but nothing he does resembles an actual fight. Considering he's such a good wrestler, it wouldn't kill him to advance position or try a submission once in a while. He just blankets opponents mostly. George Sotiropoulos is my favourite fighter, maybe Fitch can learn something from him. :D

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Right then, just did my predictions on MMA Playground. Who's everyone got winning?

 

Top 3 fights I'm having

 

BJ Penn vs Jon Fitch

I can't see BJ coping with Fitch's wrestling. BJ's got some of the best takedown defence in MMA and he might do well early on and obviously the longer BJ can keep it standing the better he'll do. In the end I think Fitch's size and relentless wrestling will wear Penn down and Fitch will win on points. Fitch also has excellent submission defence and a solid chin so to me this is a really tough fight for BJ to win.

 

Fitch Decision

 

George Sotiropoulos vs Dennis Siver

Clash of styles, whoever keeps it in the area they're strong in will win. I see George getting Siver to the ground and I don't think Siver will be able to stay out of danger there, George is too crafty. Saying that if Siver can keep it standing he has a great shot at scoring the upset. He's a much better striker (although Sot looks to be improving his boxing all the time) and if he lands something big it could be curtains. I'll stick with my gut instinct but this is a tough call

 

Sotiropoulos R2 Sub

 

Michael Bisping vs Jorge Rivera

I think Bisping will have weather an early storm but after that it's his fight to lose. Probably a similar strategy he used against Leben just picking him off and avoiding the power shots. Rivera doesn't have 'Leben chin' though and I reckon Bisping will finish him off late with ground and pound.

 

Bisping R3 TKO

 

Rest of the card I'm going with

 

Chris Lytle Sub

Kyle Noke Dec

Ross Pearson Dec

Alexander Gustafsson KO/TKO

Tiequan Zhang KO/TKO

Tom Blackledge Dec

Riki Fukuda KO/TKO

Mark Hunt KO/TKO

Maciej Jewtuszko Dec

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I think we'll see a shock in the Sots/Siver fight, I think Sots will go in for a takedown with Siver landing a good shot in the process that rocks Sots - then Siver will finish with GnP.

 

For some reason thats what I imagine happening.

 

And I'm a fan of both guys in that fight also, just like Bisping/Rivera.

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