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[Keith Houchen]

They're stripping him of the belt but he's refusing to let go.

[Mr Tibbs]

I see WSOF has just stripped Palhares of the WW title and suspended him indefinitely. That guy is a piece of work who should be banned from the sport for life. He's had all the chances that he he deserves!

[Chunk]

I see WSOF has just stripped Palhares of the WW title and suspended him indefinitely. That guy is a piece of work who should be banned from the sport for life. He's had all the chances that he he deserves!

 

Is there an echo in here?

 

Joking aside, yeah, he deserves all he gets.

[jimufctna24]

Is Shields even a dick? Ive disliked him for that long now i cant even remember if there was a reason for it in the first place?

To the best of my knowledge, Sheilds has never said or done anything really offensive, there is just nothing endearing about him. Plus, he has been responsible for some right shitefests. (his fight with Hendo on CBS, and that tepid affair with Martin Kampmann).

 

He is a promotional nightmare. It's little wonder Strikerforce let him go in 2010 when he was still their Middleweight Champion.

[Jonny Vegas]

That's not fair, though.

 

She's never cranked a submission after a tap, nor has she gouged eyes or any other daft shit.

 

She's intense as fuck and a proper murderer, but she's never been anything but professional. She's most likely Dana's idea of the perfect professional Mixed Martial Artist.

 

She couldn't be further from Palhares.

She has bitten an opponent during a fight though....

 

For me once again this is an over reaction over Palhares. His ''eye gouging'' was practically non existent and wasn't what has caused the damage in the picture shown by Shields and we are talking fractions of seconds with regards to how long the submission is held on for. Letting go prior to the referee physically stopping you is a courtesy not a rule, else he could and would have been immediately disqualified. If you don't want to get hurt then don't let him catch you in a submission or don't fight him at all.

 

The same people white knighting everyone he destroys and chastising him for his actions are the same people who have no issue with incidents like when Dan Henderson completely intentionally landed an outrageously powerful strike onto an already downed and stone cold unconscious Michael Bisping...which Henderson openly admitted was intentionally done...and legitimately could have resulted in brain damage or worse for Bisping.

 

Can someone tell me what action is being taken against Shields for an intentional strike to an opponent after the stoppage?

 

Absolute bollocks.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jonny Vegas

[wandshogun09]

I think pretty much everyone said Hendo's extra diving punch on an unconscious Bisping was shitty. I certainly felt uneasy watching it. Thought it was a dick move and dangerous and I love Hendo. There was no need for it. And aside from the dangerous aspect of it which is obviously the most important aspect, I think that KO would've looked even cooler if Hendo had just landed that bomb and casually walked off like Mark Hunt. One shot, Bisping flattened, Hendo walking away cooler than a polar bear's toenails. Much better.

 

As for Shields post-fight punch, I can't stand the boring prick but I don't blame him at all for that. Palhares was being a cock however you want to slice it. He could've broken Shields' arm and put him out for months. Which would then effect Shields' ability to fight and get paid.

 

There was no need for it. There's no way he didn't feel Shields tapping like fuck. No way. It's all well and good going 'he's waiting for the ref to step in, he's not breaking the rules', fine. But you know when you've got a sub locked in and you know when the other guy's tapping. There's no ref in BJJ schools around the world and that's how it works there. You feel a tap, you let go. It's that simple. Just let go of the fucking hold! What does he think, Shields was going to pop up and deny he tapped? Everyone saw him tap. Everyone knew Palhares had got him. Why hold on at that point unless you're just being a cunt?

 

I was one of the ones saying the backlash against Palhares was a tad overblown in the past, and at times I think it was. But it's happening way too many times now. He's a fucking liability and a mental midget.

 

Contrast his actions with Joe Lauzon stopping his own TKO of Gomi the other week. Yeah, Lauzon took a risk not waiting for Herb Dean to stop it but he knew Gomi was done and he just stopped hitting him. Now Gomi could've jumped up and said he was OK and that whole stoppage would've been a right mess. With Palhares vs Shields there couldn't have been any controversy. Shields tapped. Clearly and repeatedly. He gave up, admitted defeat and didn't want any more. Palhares knew and continued to bend Shields' arm up his back. There's no logical way to defend his actions.

[Barearse]

 

That's not fair, though.

 

She's never cranked a submission after a tap, nor has she gouged eyes or any other daft shit.

 

She's intense as fuck and a proper murderer, but she's never been anything but professional. She's most likely Dana's idea of the perfect professional Mixed Martial Artist.

 

She couldn't be further from Palhares.

She has bitten an opponent during a fight though....

 

For me once again this is an over reaction over Palhares. His ''eye gouging'' was practically non existent and wasn't what has caused the damage in the picture shown by Shields and we are talking fractions of seconds with regards to how long the submission is held on for. Letting go prior to the referee physically stopping you is a courtesy not a rule, else he could and would have been immediately disqualified. If you don't want to get hurt then don't let him catch you in a submission or don't fight him at all.

 

The same people white knighting everyone he destroys and chastising him for his actions are the same people who have no issue with incidents like when Dan Henderson completely intentionally landed an outrageously powerful strike onto an already downed and stone cold unconscious Michael Bisping...which Henderson openly admitted was intentionally done...and legitimately could have resulted in brain damage or worse for Bisping.

 

Can someone tell me what action is being taken against Shields for an intentional strike to an opponent after the stoppage?

 

Absolute bollocks.

 

Nah, we're not talking fractions of seconds here. We're talking at least a second of Shields tapping then at least another second of the ref tapping him and telling him to let go too. No excuse, total BS. Quite rightly being stripped and should be refused a fighting license everywhere

[DJM]

Can someone tell me what action is being taken against Shields for an intentional strike to an opponent after the stoppage?

 

Apparently both Palhares and Jake Shields have received temporary suspensions from Nevada Athletic Commission.

[wandshogun09]

Joe Lauzon breaks down Palhares being "kind of a dick" here...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=C5DdtQaSqh

 

That's the main thing for me, he doesn't just hold onto subs, he cranks them further. It's one thing just holding onto the grip after the tap briefly until the ref steps in. You can justify that to some degree. But to crank it more when you know the guy tapped? That's where Palhares is a real cunt. It's like he knows that the opponent has tapped and they're no longer resisting the pressure of the hold, so he chooses then to really crank it more to do maximum damage. It's so wrong. I can't see how anyone can defend it.

[wandshogun09]

That's weird. For some reason it didn't embed the video properly and it won't let me edit the post.

 

Anyway here's the Lauzon video;

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=C5DdtQaSqh8

[Jonny Vegas]

That's a good video and its a good point that's being made however I would argue that a 1 second average for letting go of submissions still really is not that bad. The comparison with Lauzon and saying its five times his average is undeniable however Lauzon is one of the nicest and most sportsmanlike fighters in the MMA. I would be very interested in seeing what an overall average was or even what the average of fighters who weren't as squeaky clean were.

 

I'm afraid your comparison of releasing in a BJJ school and in a fight is worthless though mate, if I'm rolling with someone at a class or a seminar then I'm ready to release the second a feel a tap because we both likely have work the next day, we're both there to learn and neither of us are getting paid. If I was fighting someone then letting go as quickly as possible isn't even a consideration for me unless it's someone I'm friends with or particularly like, I'll let go at any time that's within the realms of the rules that are in place and when I'm 100% sure i'm the winner. Being a nice guy is neither here nor there.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that cranking a sub is wrong but could it not also be possible that as the person in the sub puts up less resistance to it upon beginning to tap, Palhares who is going all out to enact that submission then has a better grasp on it and his natural momentum carries him into the illusion of it being "cranked"? Let's remember that the timescales we're working in here are a second and below as well.

 

I'm not saying for one second that cranking a sub or not letting go fractions of a second earlier isn't being "a bit of a dick" but that I am saying is that there is a huge difference between being a bit of a dick and breaking the rules...which he has not done.

 

Having your belt stripped for being a bit of a dick is nothing short of scandalous. This is the fight game and doing damage to your oppenents within the realms of the rules of the sport should be rewarded not chastised.

 

If people want to watch two people fighting in a completely gentlemanly and sportsmanlike manner then maybe they would be better off watching fencing.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jonny Vegas

[Egg Shen]

im not quite sure what i think of it all. The WSOF probably had to take action due to the reaction of the MMA commutity,

 

 

Can someone tell me what action is being taken against Shields for an intentional strike to an opponent after the stoppage?

 

Apparently both Palhares and Jake Shields have received temporary suspensions from Nevada Athletic Commission.

 

why has Shield's been suspended? The late punch?

[wandshogun09]

I'm afraid your comparison of releasing in a BJJ school and in a fight is worthless though mate, if I'm rolling with someone at a class or a seminar then I'm ready to release the second a feel a tap because we both likely have work the next day, we're both there to learn and neither of us are getting paid. If I was fighting someone then letting go as quickly as possible isn't even a consideration for me unless it's someone I'm friends with or particularly like, I'll let go at any time that's within the realms of the rules that are in place and when I'm 100% sure i'm the winner.

Sure, it's a different environment in a gym setting than in an actual fight, and money and potential career advancement that comes with being in an actual fight changes things slightly. I get that. But regardless, you still know when your opponent is tapping. If you're at the level in submission grappling that Rousimar Palhares is, a tap from someone you're rolling with, be it in the gym or in a fight, is something you'll be very sensitive to. You feel it. I've heard and read that plenty of times from grapplers. It's second nature, you feel the tap and you release the hold. Palhares knows what he's doing.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that cranking a sub is wrong but could it not also be possible that as the person in the sub puts up less resistance to it upon beginning to tap, Palhares who is going all out to enact that submission then has a better grasp on it and his natural momentum carries him into the illusion of it being "cranked"?

 

Maybe that could be part of it but if that was the case, why isn't it happening with other fighters? Why has Demian Maia or Jacare or Fabricio Werdum never had this type of thing happen even once, much less make a habit of it like Palhares. Fuck, even as much as Ronda Rousey and Miesha Tate hated each other, Rousey never held on and cranked the armbar after Tate tapped. Frank Mir has mangled more limbs than anyone in the sport but he's never carried on forcing a hold after the tap.

 

You can probably find examples of other fighters holding onto subs too long but nobody in the history of MMA has become known for it like Palhares has.

 

And I don't get why everyone would choose him to demonise unfairly. Why would everyone pick on him? Rousey has way more haters than him. Mir probably does too. They never get this shit for this because they release their holds when the opponent taps or immediately when the ref steps in.

 

Palhares' thing. He seems to get a kick out of it or something. Otherwise why would he keep doing it? Even now after all the shit he's had in the past regarding his holding onto subs, you'd think he'd be a little bit more conscious of letting go on the tap. But if anything, he's got worse. The Shields one was one of his worst offences for me.

 

If people want to watch two people fighting in a completely gentlemanly and sportsmanlike manner then maybe they would be better off watching fencing.

That's not what people are saying though.

 

As a combat sports fan you make peace with the fact sometimes fighters will get hurt. It's not nice. It's partly why I gave up Muay Thai years ago. The ugly truth is, people get hurt doing this shit. But if you love the sport you'll overlook that, perhaps selfishly, in exchange for a few hours entertainment.

 

My problem is that for all the violence and the trash talking in MMA, there are rules and ways to go about things. Yeah, technically you can argue Palhares didn't break any rules. But if you go into an MMA fight and you're locked in a submission, you should be able to go in with the peace of mind that if you tap you're opponent will let go. You should be able to trust that if the ref steps in, your opponent isn't going to still give your arm or leg one last good crank.

 

No-one's being a bitch and saying fighters getting hurt is the problem. They're saying they're uncomfortable seeing a fighter seemingly trying to end careers by cranking on submissions even after his opponents are tapping out.

 

There's a world of difference between what Palhares did to Shields and what Mir did to Nogueira. And that's why the day after Mir broke Nog's arm, no-one was calling for him to be banned or saying it was unsportsmanlike. Mir was trying to win the fight and happened to break Nog's arm whilst doing it. Palhares seemed to be trying to break Shields' arm and happened to win the fight whilst doing it. Intent, I guess is the word. Palhares' intent seems dirty and malicious as fuck. He'd already won when Shields tapped and the ref jumped in. Yet he couldn't help himself giving the arm that last little wrench.

[Egg Shen]

i don't think Palhares gets a kick out of it, i think it's just that heat of battle/red mist thing. After it happens he almost acts like it didn't happen, he's just fucking crazy.

[wandshogun09]

He's a right oddball mentally in fights. Red mist is a good way to describe it. Just look at the man's track record...

 

vs Tomasz Drwal - UFC 111, March 2010

At UFC 111, Palhares defeated Tomasz Drwal by heel hook 45 seconds into the first round. He was, however, subsequently suspended for 90 days for continuing to crank the submission even after Drwal had tapped and referee Kevin Mulhall stepped in to stop the fight. He stated in a post-fight interview that he did not feel Drwal tap and kept applying pressure until the referee stepped in, and stated that he was sorry for hurting him.

vs Nate Marquardt - Fight Night, September 2010

Marquardt defeated Palhares via first round TKO. During the fight, Palhares claimed that Marquardt had greased his leg after failing to secure a leg lock on the ground. Marquardt attacked, catching Palhares off guard as he was complaining to the referee and won the fight through a ground-and-pound stoppage. Palhares would later apologize for his actions during the fight after it was determined by officials that Marquardt's leg was not greased.

vs Dan Miller - UFC 134, August 2011

Palhares would defeat Miller by unanimous decision, although there was some controversy when Palhares dropped Miller in the first round and after a few follow up punches, thought the fight was over when it really wasn't.

vs Hector Lombard - TUF Smashes Finale, December 2012

Following his loss to Lombard, the UFC announced that Palhares tested positive for elevated testosterone levels in his post-fight drug test and, subsequently, has been suspended for nine-months retroactive to December 14.

vs Mike Pierce - Fight Night, October 2013

He made his debut in the new division against Mike Pierce on October 9, 2013 at UFC Fight Night 29. He won the fight via heel hook submission just 31 seconds into the first round.

 

This was the only successful submission throughout the event. However, Palhares was denied a Submission of the Night bonus because he continued cranking the heel hook after the referee stepped in, an act UFC deemed "unsportsmanlike conduct."

 

It was also noted that Pierce tapped a total of eight times to no response from Palhares.

 

The next day, while conducting an interview with ESPN's Jeremy Schaap, UFC president Dana White announced that the UFC was releasing Palhares effective immediately due to not letting go of the submission. Hours later, UFC and Zuffa released a statement saying that Palhares was already in trouble for his failure to release his heel hook on Drwal in 2010 and his drug suspension in 2012, and his actions the night before were the last straw.

vs Jake Shields - WSOF, August 2015

Palhares faced Jake Shields on August 1, 2015 at WSOF 22. He won the fight by submission with a reversal leading to a kimura, marking Shield's first loss by submission. Controversy happened after the fight, with Shields punching Palhares after the fight was over, claiming that repeated eye gougings happened during the second round, and calling Palhares a dirty fighter. Palhares came to the press one day after the incident and claimed innocence.

 

Following the incident, Palhares has been stripped of his welterweight title and suspended indefinitely, with WSOF vice-president Ali Abdel-Aziz saying that Palhares "has mental problems and shouldn’t be allowed to fight until he fixes them."

That doesn't even mention him continuing to twist the kimura after the tapping from Shields either. I thought the Fitch submission was borderline too, to be honest.

 

 

Definitely not the full shilling.