Paid Members gmoney Posted January 6 Paid Members Posted January 6 On 1/4/2026 at 4:26 PM, Infinity Land said: And have you ever seen Tony Khan in Japan? Yeah, he's a lot more technical and scientific. Quote
Paid Members RedTwoster Posted January 6 Author Paid Members Posted January 6 11 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: What? Anyway there are plenty of people similar to Dante who are already surpassing him in both in ring and mic work. Maybe send him down to ROH but it’s not working for me. Who? What young talent has started out in AEW and risen up-the-ranks? There are people who have established new identities in the company or even themselves, but there are astonishingly few young wrestlers who have managed to progress up the card in any significant way. They’ve been slightly better at doing that in the women’s division, but it’s not really something they do on the men’s side. You could argue - quite credibly - that they don’t really have to and that’s fair enough, but there aren’t many examples of wrestlers who have started out in AEW then climbed the ladder to any significant extent. MJF and Darby are the only men’s singles examples I can think of, and maybe Takeshita as he was a relative unknown. The Acclaimed as a tag team definitely count, but just as they began to establish identities as singles wrestlers, they were thrust together again. It doesn’t happen much at all. Will Hobbs could move up the ranks, but he’s stayed in a similar position.l throughout his time in AEW. Quote
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted January 6 Paid Members Posted January 6 Depends on what you mean by "starting out" I suppose? AEW doesn't have a developmental territory so literally everyone who wrestles there came from somewhere else and has some kind of prior wrestling experience. HOOK is probably the only person who you might be able to say started out in AEW as he's never wrestled a match anywhere else before his AEW debut as far as I'm aware. Maybe Anna Jay or Julia Hart? I don't really care where someone comes from or where they started out. The best talents should be in the top positions regardless of what they did before AEW. I don't see much in the Dante Martin's of the world. Best to cut them loose out into the world and let them sink or swim, and if they develop and grow then bring them back a few years down the line. Quote
organizedkaos Posted January 6 Posted January 6 (edited) I think there's certain card transitions (for want of a better word) TK struggles to book. I'd guess maybe it's particularly with younger/newer guys making the next step and also booking around weaknesses. Main event talent has absolutely been created; Swerve and Toni Storm being the best examples but there's load of minor people who seemed like they'd move up the ranks and just failed; Dante, Hook, Sami G, Wardlow all felt like they had something at some point and now could leave the company and I'd either not care or be pleasantly suprised. Swerve and Toni Storm are also clearly responsible for a large amount of the creativity around their character (on top of great ring work). The key difference does seem to be how much talent the person in question has. Kyle Fletcher is a great example of someone who's gained huge credibility working AEW but there's also an argument he is or is approaching being a top tier wrestler. The failures are all people with some major flaw but a flaw that could be overcome with the right booking and experience. It's the same sort of flaws we've come to recognise in TK's booking (if I wanted to armchair psychoanalyse I think you can easily link it to the life he's had). He pushes someone based on ring work and it doesn't really work so then he loses interest (often around the point the wrestler in question gets injured). Then on return he just kinda leaves them where they were. Dante has gone from showcase MJF match back to bottom of card flippy guy. Hook's match against Samoa Joe felt like a significant step forward, now he's silent crisp eating member of stable. Wardlow is? Generally injured, but keeps coming back as stable muscle. There's an argument that's all they can do but it also feels like they were expected to swim but with very little in the way of an aid. When they failed.. done. Edited January 6 by organizedkaos Clark - Dirty Pixie (Marcel Dettman edit) Quote
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted January 6 Paid Members Posted January 6 (edited) 11 minutes ago, organizedkaos said: There's an argument that's all they can do but it feels like they were expected to swim but with very little in the way of an aid. When they failed.. done. This is a good way of putting it. Because of the four people you mentioned yeah there's definitely reasons why they have hit a ceiling and gaps in their game that they seem unable or unwilling to improve. But they also have strengths and a better booker would position them in ways where those are hidden and TK doesn't really do that. For the most part I don't think Triple H does or even Vince did that either. It's probably a difficult balance to do where you want to protect someone but there's also only so much you can do when trying to get them to the next level. Wardlow was given a three match series with Samoa Joe which in TK's booking notepad probably looked great. Big muscle meat man vs legendary fat Samoan fighter. You'd think that would play to Wardlow's strengths. But in reality the matches were all fairly boring. And when someone is given a prominent spot and then fails well there's always loads of guys queuing up behind them. I can see why you might quickly move onto the next thing rather than feel like wasting time on someone who might drop the ball again. The gist I get from interviews with various people over the years is that the best thing to be is a consistent all-rounder. Someone the bookers can drop into any situation and trust that they'll deliver something worthwhile no matter what. That's usually the key to getting consistently booked on TV every week. I don't think the Wardlows, Sammy Guevara's, Hook's and Dante Martins are anywhere near that. Edited January 6 by LaGoosh Quote
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 6 Paid Members Posted January 6 I think "homegrown" or not isn't really a factor; it's not like TK is (any more) playing Dixie Carter and bringing in big WWE names and immediately pushing them at the expense of "AEW originals", or still treating AEW guys like second-class citizens to WWE cast-offs even when they've held a ton of titles, like TNA did forever. Most ex-WWE names either take the opportunity to reinvent themselves (Mox, Toni, Ricochet), or pretty quickly find their level (Johnny TV, Matt Sydal, etc.), and while I'd agree that there's a ton of people that have been in AEW a long time without progressing much or being given opportunities to do so, it's hard to find examples where there isn't someone else doing what they do better anyway. I'll be the first to admit that when Ricochet signed, I thought it was a mistake - that people would want Ospreay vs. Ricochet again, and all that would do is highlight how much Ospreay had progressed since their last match, and how much he had stayed in the same place or regressed, while other wrestlers had surpassed him as acrobatic high-flyer types. But I was wrong, and he became one of the better heels we've seen in ages. I don't think Dante and Darius Martin add anything that JetSpeed don't do better. I'm not sure what more you could do with Hook. But for every Hook there's a Kyle Fletcher, who went from a midcard tag team guy to a nailed on prospect for World Champion, and reliable match of the night merchant. Quote
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted January 6 Paid Members Posted January 6 2 hours ago, RedTwoster said: Who? What young talent has started out in AEW and risen up-the-ranks? There are people who have established new identities in the company or even themselves, but there are astonishingly few young wrestlers who have managed to progress up the card in any significant way. They’ve been slightly better at doing that in the women’s division, but it’s not really something they do on the men’s side. You could argue - quite credibly - that they don’t really have to and that’s fair enough, but there aren’t many examples of wrestlers who have started out in AEW then climbed the ladder to any significant extent. MJF and Darby are the only men’s singles examples I can think of, and maybe Takeshita as he was a relative unknown. The Acclaimed as a tag team definitely count, but just as they began to establish identities as singles wrestlers, they were thrust together again. It doesn’t happen much at all. Will Hobbs could move up the ranks, but he’s stayed in a similar position.l throughout his time in AEW. Would you say Hangman wasn’t made in AEW? Had it not been for his own stupidity I’d have thrown Cody in there as well. Yes he’d been in WWE, but he’d left and completely reinvented himself to the point WWE took him back, full presentation. MJF, Fletcher, Hook, The Acclaimed, Hobbs, The Gunns, Brody King, Takeshita, Bandido(?), Garcia, Yuta, Darby, Guevara, Perry, Nick Wayne. All had Indy runs but nearly all had no big league experience and have been successful. Womens side you have Willow, Britt, Anna Jay, Statlander, Harley, Hayter, Sky Blu, Julia, Aminata, Red Velvet. I would argue AEW have pushed these “New Talents” more than their own from the PC. Quote
Paid Members RedTwoster Posted January 6 Author Paid Members Posted January 6 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: Would you say Hangman wasn’t made in AEW? Had it not been for his own stupidity I’d have thrown Cody in there as well. Yes he’d been in WWE, but he’d left and completely reinvented himself to the point WWE took him back, full presentation. MJF, Fletcher, Hook, The Acclaimed, Hobbs, The Gunns, Brody King, Takeshita, Bandido(?), Garcia, Yuta, Darby, Guevara, Perry, Nick Wayne. All had Indy runs but nearly all had no big league experience and have been successful. Almost all of these have had runs in companies of repute (ROH, New Japan etc) - and I think that’s almost essential if you’re to succeed in AEW. They’ve established their identities there for sure, but hardly any of the promising talents they’ve identified have moved up the card. @organizedkaos has articulated this better than I have, I think. As I said - and @LaGoosh also pointed out - you can absolutely argue that you don’t need to do this. It doesn’t really matter where you get your wrestlers from, but there are a lot of examples of people appearing on AEW TV, looking like there’s something there and just stagnating. Even among the people you’ve listed, the vast majority of them have made no progress whatsoever on the card, which is kind of my point. They reach a certain point then move no further, and consequently feel lower value. Edited January 6 by RedTwoster Quote
organizedkaos Posted January 6 Posted January 6 Hangman was literally in the first world title match. No-ones saying TK is bad at recognising talent, it's just that AEW tends not to grow them. It's not to say AEW don't use unkonwn talent well. It's just people tend to get stuck. Brody and Hobbs never feel like they've been anything but "monster for champ to overcome". Their current stuff may pay off but it seems more about Bandido and Samoa Joe than them... Perry was a failure as a main eventer. Hook has stalled out. Yuta and Garcia have clearly gone from indie darlings to TV regulars but they've also stalled. Garcia you could argue just doesn't have it (sorry) as he has been given a bunch of opportunities. Yuta seems to have got forgotten about by TK (crowd still respond to him though) Someone comes in, makes a splash and then... they remain. I missed the first couple years of AEW so maybe there's a certain amount of momentum that can be seen there. By the time I was watching MJF was already a big heel (and wasn't he very deliberately paired with Cody from the go?) and the champion stuff played on that momentum so fair play to that. There are examples, Fletcher is a great one and the Gunns seem to have gone from jobber to tag champs (although the tag division is quite samey these days, most people get a go, the fact that Top Flight haven't been champs is more noteable than the Gunns being them) It's not even big slights. AEW has introduced me loads of great wrestlers I enjoy watching. I just think they struggle with momentum and sometimes (despite all.. the... fucking... belts) most everyone is just stuck in a squishy middle. Quote
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted January 6 Paid Members Posted January 6 22 minutes ago, organizedkaos said: Yuta seems to have got forgotten about by TK (crowd still respond to him though) He's in a pretty perfect spot I'd say. Evil underling and little goblin. He gets great heat and I imagine will get a more prominent presence once the Deathriders turn on Mox. Quote
organizedkaos Posted January 6 Posted January 6 Yeah there's definitely a strong case that ignoring the potential face turn when BCC becomes a DR. He feels genuinely over as a heel (whilst being a fun wrestler to watch) in a way few are. That's one where it does feel with the right moves you could elevate him as a heel and then at some point get a pretty huge face turn. So that's an pro for TK's" sorry all lines are busy let's put you on hold" booking. Quote
The King Of Swing Posted January 6 Posted January 6 I have no issue with likes of Dante, being kept around. Fills the 'puts the main stars over in a decent match' spot well enough. So what happened to Scorpio? Felt to me like MVP's "he called in sick" line was a bit of a dig at him. Of course I could just be reading too much into it and he's injured again. Quote
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted January 6 Paid Members Posted January 6 Scorpio Sky is pretty rubbish so I file it under "Who cares?". The guy is a no hoper. His best moment was when he was so annoying and shit on commentary that JR looked visibly disgusted by him. Quote
Paid Members Kamran Posted January 6 Paid Members Posted January 6 Coming up on Dynamite this week: Quote
Paid Members Lorne Malvo Posted January 7 Paid Members Posted January 7 That was a fairly boring Collision - I always think your first show of a new year should be a bit of a reset or a big deal, but this wasn't that at all. That whole Shelton Benjamin vs Dante Martin match/promo was rough and horrible. They didn't have much chemistry, they tried to do a 'looking good in defeat' thing but it didn't work because Dante just got his head kicked in all match, Dante did that weird 'my momma didn't raise no bitch' line which made no sense considering he was getting battered. MVP is the drizzling shits too and his promo was awful. Does he know wrestling is a work? Imagine if everyone worked like MVP, constantly interrupting each others promos and making everyone look bad because you always have to be the hardest bloke in the room and have the last word. He's shit. Darby Allin vs Yuta was fine. El Clon looked good even though the big C was laughable and instantly destroyed any aura he may have had. JetSpeed vs Big Bill & Bryan Keith was fun. it was a rare off night for Komander and Hechicero who just didn't gel together here. God bless Eddie Kingston, doing his best to inject a little interest into a feud with the GYV that nobody cares about. MegaProblems vs Timeless Love Bombs is just kind of there trundling along. I'm gutted they've gone back to this eSports arena too, the worst thing I can say about it is that it looks like a TNA venue from 2017. Horrible building. Now that the Continental Classic isn't there to paper over the cracks, AEW really need some kind of big angle or to finetune their booking because this show (much like Dyno last week) was mostly quite dull. Quote
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