AEW Backstage Assault

[Factotum]

1 minute ago, DavidB6937 said:

Not that simple though is it. Nearly everything about his title run was weak.

I thought he just looked out of his depth. Perhaps if he gets another run he'll be a lot better, but I thought going into him winning everyone loved him and then...it just felt flat. Its not all his fault of course but he has to carry some of the blame

[Guest]

Just now, DavidB6937 said:

Not that simple though is it. Nearly everything about his title run was weak.

His placement on shows, and even not being on some at all, or having his title matches on Rampage, are something the blame sits squarely on. But on the other side Hangman, and any credible headliner, needs to have the balls to say to who’s running it that I’m the champ, I’m on the peak segments. That part sits on him to defend his spot and worth on a show 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Chris B said:

Looking back at that, I wonder if plans changed - it feels like they moved things around because of Punk, and the match got moved back.

Got changed as he wanted to be home when his wife gave birth. he got given it and then straight back into title mox when back. Why we got Christian va Omega than one of the new big names 

[Keith Houchen]

1 hour ago, 69MeDon said:

The PPV on which the peak of the story of him becoming champion took place did 145,000 buys, bringing in $4m. Only All Out 2021 did better. Hangman isn't just some guy the internet loves.

I’m really only going on what is posted on here, because quite honestly it’s the only wrestling coverage and opinion I hold in good stead, but wasn’t the thing with Hangman that captured everyone was the thrill of the chase? The will he won’t he? Can he prevail finally? 
 

It’s like Niles and Daphne in Frasier. It was great but once they finally got together it wasn’t as good. 

[The Gaffer]

I think Hangman would have definitely succumbed to a bit of that Time on Our Hands loss of goodwill momentum, but the booking around him as champ was rubbish alright. The big angles and PPVs could be okay, but I seem to remember so many Dynamites where he's just come out for his bit, and it wouldn't be anywhere near the top three bits of the show. 

I tend to think whoever your champion is, it should be like Austin rocking up in 98 and Rock getting out of the limo in 2000. Regardless of whatever the fuck is going on, there should be a cut away on your live TV show solely to show they've arrived in the building. You should roughly know what hour they're going to come out, and to what end. Even WCW kept this up throughout the year 2000. 

Oh...and he was paired with Adam Page wasn't he? So let's lay blame there too. 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I’m really only going on what is posted on here, because quite honestly it’s the only wrestling coverage and opinion I hold in good stead, but wasn’t the thing with Hangman that captured everyone was the thrill of the chase? The will he won’t he? Can he prevail finally? 
 

It’s like Niles and Daphne in Frasier. It was great but once they finally got together it wasn’t as good. 

They did start a story of him overcoming his trepidations and taking on all comers, but then lost to Punk when a win would have put him up a level. Instead it was lose to the wwe guy as they are superior than TNA lapses into too often. Punk could have won it off him a few weeks later and Hangman wouldn’t have looked second rate as he ended up doing. Especially as they then had him flounder instead of  moving onto another story for months 

[69MeDon]

38 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I’m really only going on what is posted on here, because quite honestly it’s the only wrestling coverage and opinion I hold in good stead, but wasn’t the thing with Hangman that captured everyone was the thrill of the chase? The will he won’t he? Can he prevail finally? 
 

It’s like Niles and Daphne in Frasier. It was great but once they finally got together it wasn’t as good. 

Definately. But I don't think what was a booking failure post-title win means Hangman "isn't world champion material", like the other guy said. That's on Tony Khan and his seeming inability to book good stories after the initial peak of someone's character (Wardlow being another example).

[gmoney]

17 minutes ago, Louch said:

They did start a story of him overcoming his trepidations and taking on all comers, but then lost to Punk when a win would have put him up a level. Instead it was lose to the wwe guy as they are superior than TNA lapses into too often. Punk could have won it off him a few weeks later and Hangman wouldn’t have looked second rate as he ended up doing. Especially as they then had him flounder instead of  moving onto another story for months 

The bigger money would have been with Punk v Omega/MJF/Danielson/etc though, and they had limited time with him getting on. Turns out, a lot more limited than they thought, but I can't fault the logic of having Punk do a round of championship matches then dropping it back to Page in 9 months to a year. Page isn't the finished article yet either. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, gmoney said:

The bigger money would have been with Punk v Omega/MJF/Danielson/etc though, and they had limited time with him getting on. Turns out, a lot more limited than they thought, but I can't fault the logic of having Punk do a round of championship matches then dropping it back to Page in 9 months to a year. Page isn't the finished article yet either. 

 As I said I’d still have Punk win the title, but give Page the win first at the ppv to give him credibility, and have punk win it a few weeks later on tv 

[BomberPat]

Just now, Louch said:

 As I said I’d still have Punk win the title, but give Page the win first at the ppv to give him credibility, and have punk win it a few weeks later on tv 

For sure - they had a perfect opportunity with Page's story being that he was gaining confidence as champion, while Punk's was that he was still rusty and an old-timer getting back in his groove; plenty of ways they could have booked that to be a star-making win for Page without Punk losing any credibility.

I think Hangman's reign suffered from not being explicit enough in the story they were telling - he fought diverse opponents, with the idea being (I assume) that he was evolving as a wrestler by learning to beat a monster like Lance Archer in a Texas Death Match, and a technical expert in Bryan Danielson, and whatever Adam Cole is. If that personal growth was brought to the forefront, and he had a bit more of an excuse for the loss to Punk, it could have been handled far better.

[CavemanLynn]

Overall, it felt at the time and even more now in hindsight that all was being sacrificed to the altar of Punk. Every time they pushed him on comms as rusty and the underdog, he'd still outlast and outsmart his opponents, which is no bad thing if the build kept going. The Eddie feud felt like a turning point for Punk, but three months later Punk's still working the "veteran proving his worth" angle, and beating anyone not called MJF. Then he got crocked, and instead of pivoting away to something else, the company seemed to put the whole show in a holding pattern, waiting with baited breath for their beloved Punk to return, all while their ACTUAL champion Moxley was doing more for that belt than anyone since Omega. Punk returns, they throw the title practically straight back on him, he injures himself yet again, and rather than step away, endorsing the belt and company, accepting his failure and vowing to return when he's fully healed, he sets fire to his toys and yeets them out of the pram in a public forum, massively abusing his employer's trust. This recent blow-up, just like Page's promo, feels like it should be the culmination of months of logical build, possibly of a bitter champion tiring of fighting all comers and holding the belt to ransom, but instead it's come out of the blue, a tiny self-inflicted crack in the dam immediately erupting into a torrent of petty vitriol.

Edited September 13, 2022 by CavemanLynn

[LaGoosh]

16 hours ago, BomberPat said:

I think Hangman's reign suffered from not being explicit enough in the story they were telling - he fought diverse opponents, with the idea being (I assume) that he was evolving as a wrestler by learning to beat a monster like Lance Archer in a Texas Death Match, and a technical expert in Bryan Danielson, and whatever Adam Cole is. If that personal growth was brought to the forefront, and he had a bit more of an excuse for the loss to Punk, it could have been handled far better.

Absolutely, Hangman was telling this story in his matches. Each one he was getting more confident and in his rematch with Adam Cole he basically smashed his way through him to the point that it was almost a squash match. So while Page was telling this story the company definitely wasn't helping him tell it then cut him off at the knees just as it felt like his reign was just getting going. He hasn't recovered from it. You could have easily at least told the story of Page now being overconfident led to him making a foolish mistake and losing everything for it and that leads to the story of either Hangman turning into a bitter heel or him being humbled and having to build himself back as a top babyface who ha learnt the valuable lesson that his pride needs to be kept in check. 

Instead all was ignored and sacrificed for CM Punk who it turns out wasn't even worth the effort in the end.

[Infinity Land]

There was a rumour at the time that Hangman had a knock which kept him out of action during the first month of his reign. It still doesn't excuse the piss poor booking he received. It was an easy story to tell of Danielson ducking Hangman and bullying his mates in the Dark Order. Instead it felt flipped with Danielson doing the chasing.

In the case of Hangman and Thunder Rosa it has been frustrating as the following Interim world title reigns have given the indication that AEW can actually book a face champion. Oh, no the precious rankings we can't just create matches. Brody King with the Royal Rampage, RUSH magically getting a title shot. Mance Warner, Konosuke Takeshita getting eliminators.

Toni Storm might be getting the same treatment since they gave Penelope Ford an eliminator just an excuse to get their champion on TV.

[LaGoosh]

21 hours ago, Chris B said:

Punk is also a guy who tended to rail against advice himself, and very much go for the 'do things your way' approach. 

Yeah there was loads of stuff when he was coming up that he didn't listen to the veterans who gave him advice and thought he was an arrogant prick who knew better.

Punk also said that Hangman has done "nothing in this business" which is the exact kind of arrogantly dismissive attitude of younger wrestlers an their careers that used to upset Punk so much when he was coming up.

It's like when he regularly says "money isn't everything" but then constantly brings up his pay, how much he draws and how much money he makes for the companies he works for. He's becoming almost a parody of the things he hated when he was younger.

Edited September 14, 2022 by LaGoosh

[BomberPat]

"done nothing in the business" about a guy you beat for a championship is awful, too. Doesn't do a lot for CM Punk presenting himself as someone worth listening to in the first place.