The Last of Us II

[RedRooster]

10 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

I guess we’re good for spoilers in here?

The thread probably needs spoiler tags, but surely to goodness we are? What else are we going to talk about now that the game has been out for some time.

Some interesting comments from Neil Druckmann here about what the game’s ending was originally going to be. Until there’s clarity on what we can and can’t say I’ll avoid spoiling the plot, but I thought that this was where they were going with it during that final section.

As for my view on the game? Now I’ve had time to digest it all, I’d say it’s my favourite video game storyline ever. The gameplay is often repetitive, but I can’t say that bothered me too much.

[LaGoosh]

I love Abby and Lev, I'm hoping we get some kind of DLC with the pair of them or something. One of the hardest hitting moments for me is the end of day 3 for Abby, where she and Lev have been through absolute hell and chaos only to finally get back to the aquarium and...yeah. Gutting.

[Mr_Danger]

Indeed, you almost forget what they’re coming back too. Poor Alice.

What grabbed me most was how bloody enjoyable the gameplay was. I was dying for a replay just to play around with the combat and see if I could manipulate the environment and what not. If anything it’s a little at odds with the tone but that’s where I appreciate that underneath the slick and complex storytelling and great acting it’s still a game and they can get away with it. Man it’s an intense game.

Good to see my boy Ian Alexander getting some rep after the arse dropped out of OA.

[TildeGuy~!]

Probably my most anticipated game of all time, was it a good game? Yes the gameplay mechanics had improved tremendously since part 1 but the storytelling is absolutely terrible, new characters like Yara and Jessie who are extremely likeable get shitty endings with no build up and just like that they’re gone, it happened far too often with other characters too obviously the best parts of the game were the flashbacks as that’s where most of the story is told but they proper Raiden’d it, they advertised this game as something that it wasn’t and that’s where most of the hate should be.

Then playing as Abby for half of the game? When she’s built up early in the story as the main villain is utter madness, regardless of her reasons for doing what she did.  

Edited July 20, 2020 by TildeGuy~!

[Mr_Danger]

Surely if you take anything away from the game it’s that there’s no villains. Everyone exists in the grey areas. Apart from the slaver biker gang.

[TildeGuy~!]

Just now, Mr_Danger said:

Surely if you take anything away from the game it’s that there’s no villains. Everyone exists in the grey areas. Apart from the slaver biker gang.

Completely forgot about them too, that came out of nowhere. 

[LaGoosh]

41 minutes ago, TildeGuy~! said:

Then playing as Abby for half of the game? When she’s built up early in the story as the main villain is utter madness, regardless of her reasons for doing what she did.  

Why is it madness? The whole point of the story is that their is no villain. People are complex and deeply flawed. Playing as Abby shows this and that violence, vengeance and hate lead to nothing but misery and pain for everyone and that only love and forgiveness can save you and the people you love. It's the central theme of the entire plot. Playing as the villain and realising she isn't a boring one dimensional video game villain is key to everything.

Even with the Rattlers you find notes in their base where one of them is worried about his sick mother. 

[RedRooster]

41 minutes ago, TildeGuy~! said:

Probably my most anticipated game of all time, was it a good game? Yes the gameplay mechanics had improved tremendously since part 1 but the storytelling is absolutely terrible, new characters like Yara and Jessie who are extremely likeable get shitty endings with no build up and just like that they’re gone, it happened far too often with other characters too obviously the best parts of the game were the flashbacks as that’s where most of the story is told but they proper Raiden’d it, they advertised this game as something that it wasn’t and that’s where most of the hate should be.

Then playing as Abby for half of the game? When she’s built up early in the story as the main villain is utter madness, regardless of her reasons for doing what she did.  

Completely disagree on all counts. As far as Abby goes, it’s a ballsy move, and it allows for moments that just wouldn’t be possible if it were a movie, book or TV show. You end up playing as that person that Ellie viewed as a one dimensional demon, only to find that she’s not - then you fight against the character you originally played as. Then you get forced into a fight with Abby that you don’t want to have.

It illustrates the utterly pointless nature of violence in the smartest possible way.

As for Yara and Jesse, it’s not their story. I’m not sure what more you expected for their deaths. Jesse’s is particularly clever since you know it’s coming, and you have that ongoing sense of dread as you play as Abby wondering when it’s going to happen, yet the game continues to make you wait, building the attachment you have to the character (and also your dog) before it’s taken away in one painful swoop.

As far as Yara goes, she dies during the most precarious of circumstances. Lev and Abby can’t slow down to dwell on what has just happened, they have to keep going, otherwise they’re also going to die. The brutal, shocking nature of it seems deliberate to me and serves a purpose.

To say the storytelling is ‘terrible’ is, with the greatest respect, nonsense. If you didn’t personally like it, that’s fair enough but it’s different from the storytelling itself being poor.

It uses the fact it’s interactive, immersive entertainment in which you are responsible for your character’s actions in a better way than any AAA game I can think of. 

[HarmonicGenerator]

Agree with @RedRooster and @chokeout. I absolutely loved the game, it gave me moments of emotion, shock, unease and relief like no other game I've played. The way I started to feel more and more sympathy for Abby as it went on was absolutely unexpected but brilliant, the rat king was terrifying, Lev is great, and I heard myself begging Ellie not to do things I knew she was going to end up doing. I was fully, 100% invested. The graphics almost go without saying but they're utterly stunning, the gameplay is improved over the first one (I know this because my other half finished II and immediately replayed the first one so she could replay II) and I loved the easter eggs and the collectibles.

The museum level might be my favourite of any game. I know very little happens but it's just lovely.

I rarely find myself with the time and motivation to completely finish a game (last one was probably Spider-Man ... I've tried with and given up on God Of War twice already) so the fact I played this one compulsively, finished it and was hoping with every bit I did that it wouldn't be the end because then it'd be over means it might be one of my favourites.

Will there be a III? I want it but I fear for what might happen to everyone!

Edited July 20, 2020 by HarmonicGenerator

[LaGoosh]

There surely will be a part 3 and if done right, it could (and hopefully will) be the ultimate redemption story for Ellie.

Playing as Abby fighting Ellie was absolutely insane and incredible. There was a moment I couldn't find Ellie then heard around the corner that familiar crafting sound and damn near shit my pants. I quickly ran away as she lobbed a molotov cocktail at me. Just a genius way of using the gameplay mechanics to turn the game on you and fuck with your head. Exhilarating stuff.

Edited July 20, 2020 by LaGoosh

[TildeGuy~!]

I just don’t see them making a part 3 after the hate Naughty Dog has received for the game.

Where else can they take this story? Ellie’s found out the truth about the fireflies, she’s forgiven Abby, Joel’s gone.

She said in the first one her biggest fear was ending up alone and that’s how the second ended. 

[Mr_Danger]

There has to be a part 3, 2 has made ridiculously money and with Neil Druckmann not ruling it out in any interview I’d say it’s guaranteed. If one was about love and two is about vengeance three would have to be about redemption although I’m not sure they’d be so formulaic and tropey so who knows. I’d quite like them never to use Ellie’s immunity to save the human race as if nothing else it’s too bloody impractical.

I think we get a new IP in place of Uncharted and a Part 3 at some point in the late next gen.

 

Edit. @TildeGuy~!I’m not sure Naughty Dog gives two fucks about the hate on reddit and Twitter, especially with a commercial and critical hit.

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Mr_Danger

[LaGoosh]

5 minutes ago, TildeGuy~! said:

I just don’t see them making a part 3 after the hate Naughty Dog has received for the game.

Where else can they take this story? Ellie’s found out the truth about the fireflies, she’s forgiven Abby, Joel’s gone.

She said in the first one her biggest fear was ending up alone and that’s how the second ended. 

The hate is from a small, vocal minority most of whom are fucking right wing women hating twats. The vast majority of gamers and reviewers are positive and it's made a shit ton of cash already. Their will be another.

And her losing everything is the perfect launching pad for a third part. She's alone with nothing to live for...so what does she do next? Can she redeem herself, save her soul and find something new to live and fight for? And how can she do that? It's textbook storytelling. 

[Steve Justice]

I finished it last week and have had difficulty discussing it. 

It almost broke me. 

Having had time to digest it, and having read interviews with Druckman, I will be playing through it again with my eyes wider open. 

I will probably enjoy playing as Abby more on second play through knowing that her uppence will come. 

Fuck Abby. The cunt. 

[RedRooster]

24 minutes ago, TildeGuy~! said:

I just don’t see them making a part 3 after the hate Naughty Dog has received for the game.

Where else can they take this story? Ellie’s found out the truth about the fireflies, she’s forgiven Abby, Joel’s gone.

She said in the first one her biggest fear was ending up alone and that’s how the second ended. 

I honestly think - and I mean this in the kindest possible way - you’ve missed the point a little bit, given what you’re saying as a whole. I’d suggest giving it a few months and revisiting the game with some of the points made here in mind.

Ellie clearly didn’t forgive Abby. She seemed to realise that what she was doing achieved nothing, something that’s illustrated further when she goes home only to find that Dina has left her. She’s the architect of her own destruction. She became so consumed with the idea that revenge would remove the pain she felt that she lost sight of the good she actually had in her life, and in the end she realised that it would not. 

But the game made the player question the purpose of Ellie’s actions long before she did, showing you who her victims were, right down to the dogs. In the end Ellie lost everything, including a little bit of herself, for absolutely nothing.