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Should UFC Fighters Get Paid More?


David

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One of the reasons I can't shit on celebrity shit-boxing too much is that it continues to highlight how washed-up MMA/shot MMA fighters can make more money losing one fight with a YouTuber than in a whole career with the UFC. Sure, it's comparing apples and oranges, but it at least calls out Dana White on some of his shit that nobody else does.

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2 hours ago, Carbomb said:

One of the reasons I can't shit on celebrity shit-boxing too much is that it continues to highlight how washed-up MMA/shot MMA fighters can make more money losing one fight with a YouTuber than in a whole career with the UFC. Sure, it's comparing apples and oranges, but it at least calls out Dana White on some of his shit that nobody else does.

 

I can't stand him but Jake Paul constantly talking shit about Dana White under paying UFC fighters is amusing as well. Its got to be winding up White something rotten.

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7 hours ago, David said:

Going by that thinking it would appear that the UFC don't "need" any of their fighters outside of perhaps McGregor then, as he's the only one who really draws monster numbers?

As whats happening here, and with Jon Jones, I think thats very apparent. I think its very clear that the UFC dont want or need any fighter (McGregor aside) who wants to be paid millions of dollars per fight.

 

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Pie in the sky? You don't think that there would be genuine top level interest from the boxing world if the legit heavyweight champion of the UFC, and by default the entire MMA world, becomes a free agent having never lost his title in the cage?

I think it's clear that he's mentioning boxing as a way to make it known to outside parties that he's very much interested in crossing over. He's being diplomatic with the UFC being part of the equation. He knows they won't entertain it.

I meant Pie in the sky with regards to the UFC actually putting it into their contract, which as you said, is never happening.

 

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I know much of that is down to the UFC brand, but surely we have to give a little credit to the guys pulling on the gloves as well?

Absolutley, but in terms of MMA, a fighter has no bargaining power at all. No other promotion can pay millions per fight for Francis, so its literally the UFC or nothing for him with regards to MMA. Heres an interesting scenario:

- Francis Ngannou leaves the UFC, and signs for the money he wants/expects for Bellator (the 'millions and millions' of dollars)

- Bellator do a PPV with Ngannou headlining against Bader. Would this PPV make mega money for Bellator, or would it die on its arse? This is where the boxing mega star comparisons dont apply in my opinion. People like Canelo/Fury/Joshua/Wilder etc get huge numbers constantly, whereas in the world of MMA, I dont think a Bellator PPV with Ngannou would even pass a few hundred thousand buys, so the star power is not the same.

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On 1/14/2022 at 8:48 PM, Dai said:

As whats happening here, and with Jon Jones, I think thats very apparent. I think its very clear that the UFC dont want or need any fighter (McGregor aside) who wants to be paid millions of dollars per fight.

The question is, what happens when McGregor is gone? Or his star fades entirely, which it's starting to do? A vast chunk of the money the UFC has made the past few years is down to Conor's events. If you remove him from the equation the numbers don't read quite so well.

You're right, they don't need the top fighters. If they're happy to basically tread water. But anyone involved in business of any kind knows that's not a viable long-term model for success. The UFC is already dealing with over-saturation, and those top events that really draw the fans in are becoming less and less frequent. 

The UFC/ESPN deal runs through 2024, which ensures the UFC get's paid the same regardless of the pulling power of their events, but it's worth remembering that ESPN agreed to that deal based on the numbers the UFC were doing pre-2019, and on the back of the monster build and event with Conor facing Khabib.

In 2022, the landscape is different. The only headline fight of notable value aside from Ngannou is the Masvidal vs Covington bout in March. The rest in Q1 is a mish-mash of mid-card guys facing off against each other, which is fine, but it's nothing special.

I admit, back in 2019 I watched literally every event. Without question. In 2022? I forgot the fights were happening this weekend just past. And I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one. 

A lack of stars may help the UFC keep the payouts low, but it'll eventually result in the TV/streaming deals being adjusted accordingly as well. I know Covid played a part, but I doubt ESPN paid $150 million for the performance centre shite that we're being served up on the reg these days. 

On 1/14/2022 at 8:48 PM, Dai said:

Absolutley, but in terms of MMA, a fighter has no bargaining power at all. No other promotion can pay millions per fight for Francis, so its literally the UFC or nothing for him with regards to MMA.

Then the real stars won't do MMA any longer than they have to. The UFC will be nothing more than a launch pad for top athletes to go on to bigger and better things.

The Ngannou's, Anderson Silva's and Conor McGregor's of the future will use the UFC to launch their career before ditching it for the real money. Leaving the UFC with the Sean Stricklands, Calvin Kattar's and Mike Perry's of the world as their staple fighters.  

I doubt any of them are particularly married to the idea of doing MMA or nothing. At the very crux of the matter these guys are prizefighters. They fight for money, and be it big gloves, small gloves, kicking, no kicking, as long as the money is there they'll do it. 

On 1/14/2022 at 8:48 PM, Dai said:

- Francis Ngannou leaves the UFC, and signs for the money he wants/expects for Bellator (the 'millions and millions' of dollars)

- Bellator do a PPV with Ngannou headlining against Bader. Would this PPV make mega money for Bellator, or would it die on its arse? This is where the boxing mega star comparisons dont apply in my opinion. People like Canelo/Fury/Joshua/Wilder etc get huge numbers constantly, whereas in the world of MMA, I dont think a Bellator PPV with Ngannou would even pass a few hundred thousand buys, so the star power is not the same.

That scenario isn't happening though. Why on earth would he sign for Bellator? And face Ryan Bader? Although, it has to be said that while the UFC pays fighters 16% of revenue, Bellator coughs up just under 45%, which means there will be many fighters who will get paid more by going to Bellator. 

There's a good chance that if he wins against Gane and the UFC don't bump his pay up, he'll just sit out MMA for the year, train boxing, while having his management team negotiate on his behalf to put together a boxing match. And his big selling point will be "the current MMA heavyweight champion," which is huge.

He then walks away in January 2023 and brings with him the status of the real UFC heavyweight champion. While he may not be making Canelo-esque money in boxing, he'll absolutely be making many times over the piffly amount the UFC are offering. 

If he did face Fury, all he'd need to do is acquit himself reasonably well in defeat and he'll be sure of some follow up fights. 

All the while red-faced Dana will be doing his best to tell that fat reporter guy who always gets first question why fighter X is actually the real heavyweight champion and Ngannou is nothing more than a joke. 

It won't end well. The UFC, while certainly not expected to match boxing-level money for their top stars, will either need to adjust their pay structure and give fighters more than the ridiculous 16% of revenue, or they'll face continually losing their most marketable stars before they can really cash in on them. 

Any sporting franchise, regardless of what it is, cannot keep losing stars and exist on pushing mid-card talent as main event draws. It won't work long-term. The UFC could exist solely on the name value of the company before, but that won't be the case 5-10 years from now. It simply doesn't have the same lustre it once had, which is only natural given the sheer amount of events we're getting. 

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I heard recently that while Conor McGregor's PPV's in 2021 accounted for 47% of the overall buys for the UFC, that it only generated around 7% of their total revenue. Their cut of the extra PPV's after what they are guaranteed by ESPN (supposed to be a $ amount of what they would have previously made on a 500,000 buy show), must be fairly small for that to be the case. 

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1 hour ago, Egg Shen said:

If Ngannou loses he's bound for Triand Combat, you heard it here first.

Him losing to Gane is a different proposition altogether though, isn't it? The big sell for him in the boxing world, especially immediately, is him being "the UFC heavyweight champion" and a promoter being able to frame any fight with Tyson Fury as a "champion vs champion" bout.

If he loses (and how he loses will play a part) then he'll have less bargaining chips and may very well end up in another MMA company that offers him more cash.

55 minutes ago, WeeAl said:

I heard recently that while Conor McGregor's PPV's in 2021 accounted for 47% of the overall buys for the UFC, that it only generated around 7% of their total revenue. Their cut of the extra PPV's after what they are guaranteed by ESPN (supposed to be a $ amount of what they would have previously made on a 500,000 buy show), must be fairly small for that to be the case. 

That's an interesting point. It may very well be the case that the UFC are happy to plod along and keep that 84% of their revenue to themselves and their stakeholders, and bank the guaranteed money from ESPN. I guess if the deal is really not costing ESPN all that much in real money when it comes to the bottom line they may be happy to have UFC on the books providing regular content, no matter how much the actual audience drops off. 

I know it went up during the pandemic, but they were really the only show in town for a long time. It'll be interesting to see what happens come 2024 when that deal ends. 

Another factor in all of this that hasn't been discussed is the sheer lack of actual promotion the UFC does for its fighters. I don't know a promoter who wouldn't be blowing shit up about someone like Francis Ngannou. 

Look at his life story, his background, his fighting style, his scary KO power, his look. The dude has everything. Yet, rather than work quietly behind the scenes to reach a deal that works for all parties and looking to promote the shit out of him, the UFC, and Dana White in particular, take a stance we've seen so often before. 

Anti-promotion. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
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We're hardly just taking his word for it are we? If BKFC are handing out $600,000 to Chad Mendes, then I'm Jackie Chan. 

A lot is going to depend on the Cung Le lawsuit. If he wins, a lot of people are going to come after the UFC (and WWE) with Lawyers. If he loses, they're safe as houses, as well as scaring more people off of the Union possibility. 

I'm not quite sure what it would actually take for a union to actually get off the ground in MMA and/or wrestling. We've already seen several top fighters sit out long term and it hasn't changed anything for the better of the other fighters and possibly not an awful lot extra for themselves. 

Jon Jones, Henry Cejudo, Stipe and Francis have been unsuccessful in negotiating more money. Nate Diaz, Conor McGregor, Nick Diaz and Jorge Madvidal either got a better backhander (we know their disclosed purses didn't improve) or they couldn't afford to sit out any longer and took what was still on the table. That's a lot of recent big name fighters that all took a stand (an individual one, obviously. There's no team work in MMA when it comes to money) and it hasn't changed dick. 

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3 minutes ago, WeeAl said:

I'm not quite sure what it would actually take for a union to actually get off the ground in MMA and/or wrestling. We've already seen several top fighters sit out long term and it hasn't changed anything for the better of the other fighters and possibly not an awful lot extra for themselves. 

Jon Jones, Henry Cejudo, Stipe and Francis have been unsuccessful in negotiating more money. Nate Diaz, Conor McGregor, Nick Diaz and Jorge Madvidal either got a better backhander (we know their disclosed purses didn't improve) or they couldn't afford to sit out any longer and took what was still on the table. That's a lot of recent big name fighters that all took a stand (an individual one, obviously. There's no team work in MMA when it comes to money) and it hasn't changed dick. 

Honestly, it would take a cohesive approach, which is why the UFC are continually looking to keep the fighters fragmented when it comes to management and organisation. There's a reason why Dana and the moneymen who back the UFC don't want CAA and the management team handling Ngannou to get too cosy in the world of MMA. 

This war they're waging against CAA and Marquel Martin runs deeper than a heavyweight champion wanting more money. The UFC know that if Martin manages to succeed in forcing the UFC to change how they do business it won't be long before other UFC talent are signing with CAA, which would spell trouble. As they say in Scotland, at that point "the game's a bogie" for the UFC.

I also find it hilarious when Dana White claims that Ngannou's manager is a moron who doesn't know the business. Is that right? He didn't think that when Marquel Martin was employed by the UFC and was instrumental in analysing the Reebok deal, and was a major player in sponsorship deals for the company, did he?

The truth is, Dana White is scared shitless by someone like Martin. He's one of the new breed of sports agents who isn't a greasy, double-dealing prick. He's a powerful, ruthless negotiator, but he's 100% on the up for his clients. He won't bend like most managers have done in the past, doing their fighter wrong because they need to stay on the UFC's good books. 

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I dont think Dana gives a shit about this management team, or any other agents and what not. In his mind, hes untouchable, and lets be honest, he is, and the UFC are. They've successfully turned the brand into the 'draw', and not the individual fighters. Id say the vast majority of the people who buy the PPVs are regulars, who buy a 'UFC' event, and are not really arsed about who the main draws are. You have a small portion who then decide based on who is fighting.

There is no strength in numbers. Dana could sack off the entire Top 5 of every divison, and the UFC wouldnt miss a beat. Not giving two shits that mega stars like Jon Jones andn Francis are sitting out indefinetley just show that. If all of the Top 5 of every divison upped sticks to Bellator, they'd all quickly be forgotten and replaced by new people in the UFC. A new company? Not a chance in hell of succeeding. Its a shitty situation, but the UFC hold all the cards in this game.

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3 hours ago, Dai said:

I dont think Dana gives a shit about this management team, or any other agents and what not. In his mind, hes untouchable, and lets be honest, he is, and the UFC are.

He's certainly not reacting the Francis' management team like a man who's untouchable. He's reacting like a man who very much feels threatened.

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