VeganMania

[Rey_Piste]

36 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

https://ccafs.cgiar.org/bigfacts/#theme=food-emissions&subtheme=direct-agriculture

We all know it’s far more demanding to raise livestock than grow vegetables, that’s why not many people raise a cow in their garden as a hobby 

That site you linked is using the 2012 EPA projections, where I was linking to the latest  2017 stats.

• From 2012 to 2030, N₂O emissions from agricultural soils are projected to increase by 3.8%, from 2,114 million tonnes of CO₂ equivalent to 2,195 million tonnes, which corresponds to 38.1% of total agricultural emissions (FAO 2015)

Whilst the current EPA stats put n2o emissions from soil are actually closer to 8 millions tonnes of co2 equivalent. Though a lot of this is down to America's obsession with growing corn for biofuel.

While yes having a cow in your back garden is rare, I do know a lot of people who have chicken, geese and goats in their gardens 

[UK Kat Von D]

23 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said:

While yes having a cow in your back garden is rare, I do know a lot of people who have chicken, geese and goats in their gardens 

Cows are the main source of GHG and take a huge toll on the environment. Even still, growing vegetables is a lot more common than keeping chickens and I personally don’t know anyone to have kept geese or goats in a garden.   

[Rey_Piste]

Agriculture on the whole is the second highest source for GHG after electric and heat production. Of that 60% of the GHG production is from n2o production. That chart you posted shows that cows alone produce approximately 450,000,000 tonnes of co2 equivalent gasses. which is a drop in the ocean of the 7,000,000,000 tonnes of c02 equivalent gasses from all of agriculture as a whole.

As for not knowing anyone to have geese or goats in their garden, you are from Birmingham which isn't exactly an agricultural hotspot. I think the reason you've become so shook by the videos you posted is because you have only recently realised how linked you are to your food. Whereas I live in Devon which is predominantly rural. I also grew up fishing, lamping/snaring rabbits and beating on pheasant shoots. 

[UK Kat Von D]

I’ve been outside of Birmingham before...

[Rey_Piste]

6 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

I’ve been outside of Birmingham before...

well done do you want a medal?

[UK Kat Von D]

28 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said:

well done do you want a medal?

No but you can write off this nonsense 

37 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said:

As for not knowing anyone to have geese or goats in their garden, you are from Birmingham which isn't exactly an agricultural hotspot. I think the reason you've become so shook by the videos you posted is because you have only recently realised how linked you are to your food. Whereas I live in Devon which is predominantly rural. I also grew up fishing, lamping/snaring rabbits and beating on pheasant shoots. 

The reason I’m shook by videos showing excessive violence towards animals in factory farms is because they show excessive violence. Not because I’ve never left a city... Also, the videos I posted are trailers for full length films. Either watch the film or don’t comment on them.

Ive been fishing as a kid, that doesn’t translate to how wild fish are caught on a mass scale. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by UK Kat Von D

[Chilly McFreeze]

Really didn't want to get involved here Maxwell, but I gotta call out the Documentary 'What The Health' as a load of old bollocks mate. It makes some outrageous and ludicrous claims (i.e eating an egg is a bad as smoking 5 cigarettes) that don't stand up to much scrutiny. This article gives a good overview of the issues, and cites the relevant sources and studies:

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/what-the-health-documentary-review-vegan-diet

And further reading available on the Wikipedia page about the criticism of the film:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Health#Reception

Not trying to discredit any of the others you posted (I've watched some, not all.) or your stance in general. But this one in particular I would recommend you take off that list if you want any credibility in your argument.

[UK Kat Von D]

10 minutes ago, Chilly McFreeze said:

 

Not trying to discredit any of the others you posted (I've watched some, not all.) or your stance in general. But this one in particular I would recommend you take off that list if you want any credibility in your argument.

Like I said I haven’t actually watched it and also haven’t spent any time fact checking it. I’ll leave it in but agree that if anyone chooses to watch it they should balance it out with what you posted.

Edited October 8, 2018 by UK Kat Von D

[FLips]

Hypothetically if people were to go Vegan en-masse, what would happen to livestock? 

Nobody is eating Cow, Chicken, Lamb, Pork, etc any more. I imagine not many want them as pets, and farmers aren't using them for wool, meat, milk, cheese, etc. Do they all just live in the wild? Do people just stop breeding them and they all die off?

What's the end game in regards to the animals? When every dietary and commercial use for them is gone, why would anyone need them?

[UK Kat Von D]

16 minutes ago, FelatioLips said:

Hypothetically if people were to go Vegan en-masse, what would happen to livestock? 

Nobody is eating Cow, Chicken, Lamb, Pork, etc any more. I imagine not many want them as pets, and farmers aren't using them for wool, meat, milk, cheese, etc. Do they all just live in the wild? Do people just stop breeding them and they all die off?

What's the end game in regards to the animals? When every dietary and commercial use for them is gone, why would anyone need them?

If people stopped breeding them the numbers would shrink and not many of them would be about. All livestock have been genetically altered through selective breeding, so they aren’t natural anyway. 

 

 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

2 hours ago, UK Kat Von D said:

I personally don’t know anyone to have kept geese or goats in a garden.   

Hello, my name is Phil. I've kept a goat in my garden in the past. I currently keep chickens. Yes I am a middle class wanker, thank you for asking. 

[Rey_Piste]

6 hours ago, UK Kat Von D said:

The reason I’m shook by videos showing excessive violence towards animals in factory farms is because they show excessive violence. Not because I’ve never left a city... Also, the videos I posted are trailers for full length films. Either watch the film or don’t comment on them.

Ive been fishing as a kid, that doesn’t translate to how wild fish are caught on a mass scale. 

Well of course the mass slaughter of cows is violent. These are large muscular animals being shocked with electricity  to stun them before a hydraulic bolt is used to pierce the brain before they are decapitated and skinned. For many people in the western world they will only see a piece of meat shrink wrapped in their supermarket. There is a total disconnect that the food they're eating was actually a living breathing animal. 

The point I have been pointing out is that there is the same disconnect when it comes to other produce. Just because no animals were directly killed to bring you your tofu burger, doesn't mean that it does any less harm to the environment than a beef burger. https://www.smallfootprintfamily.com/why-soy-is-bad-for-you-and-the-planet

 

[UK Kat Von D]

3 hours ago, Rey_Piste said:

The point I have been pointing out is that there is the same disconnect when it comes to other produce. Just because no animals were directly killed to bring you your tofu burger, doesn't mean that it does any less harm to the environment than a beef burger. 

 

Yes, some things are bad for the environment. That doesn’t mean they are as bad as beef, which is extremely bad for the environment. Beef and dairy and miles ahead of any other type of produce in terms of damage.

UK Government statistics show that in 2015/16 total imports of soy beans, soy meal and soy oil totalled 3.1 million tonnes. Of this approximately:

• 1.1 million tonnes (35%) was fed to livestock,
• 1.42 million tonnes (45%) was used in food products for humans,
• 0.58 million tonnes (18%) was used in non-food products.

 

There is no disconnect, there is only the fact that one is worse than the other. Eating beef is factually much worse than eating tofu. Every single possible way to measure this, tofu comes out better. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by UK Kat Von D

[Keith Houchen]

Whilst reducing your own carbon footprint is the right thing to do, I'm not sure it should be used for championing veganism.  Stopping the breeding of sentient beings solely to be killed and eaten is the reason.  I mean, I could eat meat every day, drive everywhere and take flights a few times every year yet I will still have a significantly smaller carbon footprint than anyone who has children.

[UK Kat Von D]

I chose vegan for the welfare of sentient beings, it’s just useful that stuff like health and environment add extra layers/reasons that could help other people make the switch. 

I do fly way too much to consider myself environmentally conscious really, off to Florence tomorrow for a couple days, Berlin next month and New York in December. Gonna cut it down a lot next year though