VeganMania

[Keith Houchen]

As someone who was married to someone who did their PhD around research, data and stats, Chest is bang on regarding the cherry picking.  One of the reasons that Dean Foods took a hit wasn't just down to milk, it was their other interests too.  And one of the reasons milk profit was down was because the cost of raw milk rose 7%. And, quite honestly, you'd call it credible because it's what you want to hear.  If the data couldn't be presented to their audience in a positive way, it wouldn't have been presented.

 

[UK Kat Von D]

Well to me that looks like cherry picking faults with the article as a means of dismissing stuff like Elmhurst switching totally to plant based products. You said the data was collected by the PBFA, but it seems like the article was written using multiple sources, some without any agenda 

[Keith Houchen]

But the sources all had data that wasn't consistent with what the article was pushing.  I'm not dismissing the article though, not by any means.  Practically every article written is done so or edited to fit a narrative.

I think the data is showing a gradual societal shift.  We seem to have a generation coming through who are more astute to shaping the world they live in and not just in maintaining all that went before them and I'm all for it!  I hold the opinion, and that's all it is, that this generation give a fuck about other people more than my generation does.  Social norms are changing.

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

The only reason Max can cherry pick is because they drive those bees around the country to pollinate the trees. 

[UK Kat Von D]

3 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

The only reason Max can cherry pick is because they drive those bees around the country to pollinate the trees. 

Wouldn’t that mean I’m avocado picking? 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

You are not allowed to avocado pick. They only let people with more than one pair of boots pick. 

[Loki]

4 hours ago, UK Kat Von D said:

Supporting local business can be a bad thing when those business are built on immoral actions  

I presume the chain of custody of the Bolivian marching powder, that you seem so keen on repeatedly reminding us you are very cool for using, is free from immorality then?  And your mobile phone's rare earth metals are sourced from the perfumed anus of a cherub?  

 

[UK Kat Von D]

1 hour ago, Loki said:

I presume the chain of custody of the Bolivian marching powder, that you seem so keen on repeatedly reminding us you are very cool for using, is free from immorality then?  And your mobile phone's rare earth metals are sourced from the perfumed anus of a cherub?  

 

We’ve gone over this. You really need to pay more attention. 

 

You can oppose animal cruelty without being perfect in every single way. Are people only entitled to have morals if every single other aspect of their lives are perfect? Does me doing something wrong entitle you to ignore the fact that you pay for animals to be raped and have their throats slit? 

[PowerButchi]

You could easily flip that and say "Does me doing something wrong entitle you to ignore the fact you pay for humans to be raped and murdered in the third world."

 

IE. You can love delicious meat and still not be perfect in every way.

[AdamTH17]

Venturing into this topic looking for some suggestions.

Girlfriend has decided she wants to try going vegetarian, so I've said I'll try it alongside her. Partially because I'm interested in doing more cooking, and a vegetarian diet seems to incorporate more of this, partially because I want to see if it ends up having any health benefits, and mostly because as I've grown up I've become more aware of the treatment of the things that end up on my plate.

Could anyone point me in the direction of some simple things to get me started? I know there's a fuck load of stuff online, but they seem like quite a drastic change for somebody who's been eating meat almost every day of his life. Plus, being a student a lot of the recipes I'm finding involve ingredients that look like a bollock ache to get a hold of, so anything that can be bought on the cheap, and preferably in bulk would be top notch. Any general pointers would also be happily received!

[UK Kat Von D]

8 minutes ago, PowerButchi said:

You could easily flip that and say "Does me doing something wrong entitle you to ignore the fact you pay for humans to be raped and murdered in the third world."

 

IE. You can love delicious meat and still not be perfect in every way.

You can flip it if you like, people generally don’t though. I don’t defend my unethical habits or make excuses for them. I don’t belittle people who choose not to do drugs. I surely wouldn’t spend nearly 50 pages questioning someone who doesn’t want to do drugs or trying to pick holes in there logic. If there was an anti-drug thread on here, I probably just wouldn’t open it. 

Imagine if someone posted a status on Facebook saying they were quitting meat. You’d have trolls saying “but bacon” etc. If someone said they were quitting smoking, you wouldn’t have the same trolls saying “oh but menthol.” It is a strawman argument created out of guilt.

Pathetic nonsense really to use unrelated character attacks to ignore valid points.

[Keith Houchen]

It absolutely isn't a strawman argument, nor is it born from guilt.  Animals (and humans) die because of the drug trade.  You choose to let it not bother you because you enjoy it.  Just like someone ignores the slaughter in the animal world because they like a bacon sarnie.

Principles are there to be adhered to 100%, otherwise it isn't a principle, it's a hobby.  It's not picking holes in your lifestyle, it's picking holes in your principles and ethics, and it's what you do by trying to say people try and deflect their guilt.

[UK Kat Von D]

13 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

It absolutely isn't a strawman argument, nor is it born from guilt.  Animals (and humans) die because of the drug trade.  You choose to let it not bother you because you enjoy it.  Just like someone ignores the slaughter in the animal world because they like a bacon sarnie.

Principles are there to be adhered to 100%, otherwise it isn't a principle, it's a hobby.  It's not picking holes in your lifestyle, it's picking holes in your principles and ethics, and it's what you do by trying to say people try and deflect their guilt.

It is a strawman argument, it is an attempt to pick holes in a lifestyle choice to defend their own actions. I know because I see my friends who don’t do drugs get questioned every day on all sorts of unrelated behaviour. If I’d never done drugs, there would be some other issue people all of a sudden pretend to care about. I’ve seen carnists say my friends can’t be vegan because they’ve probably stepped on an ant or because they don’t know if a lorry carrying their vegan food hit a dog. They expect vegans to live in self sustaining eco bubbles and have no contact with the outside world. They set impossible targets just so they can condone their own behaviour.

Yeah my bad habits are worse and more obvious than some others, but it should be pretty clear that saying “animals don’t deserve to die for your enjoyment” is true regardless of what other stuff I may get upto 

[PowerButchi]

I don't set impossible targets whatsoever, it's just quite clear that using cocaine is incompatible with veganism. If someone's a vegan and proud of it, good for them, I have no problem with Veganism and can see why it's a somewhat noble thing to do., but at the same time I'd expect them to take that stance against an industry that uses animals in such an abhorrent way.

Edited November 7, 2018 by PowerButchi

[UK Kat Von D]

1 minute ago, PowerButchi said:

I don't set impossible targets whatsoever, it's just quite clear that using cocaine is incompatible with veganism. Mules are called Mules for a reason.

Maybe not you personally, but idiots like Loki totally would.

Cocaine and meat consumption aren’t really comparable in scale either, but no one really bothers to take that into account