VeganMania

[Hannibal Scorch]

Look, if Quorn vegan nuggets  or vegeterian processed food suddenly became cheaper then processed meat, people would switch.It's the fact Vegan/Vegeterian food costs more that is the problem. 

That statement isn't strictly true. I mean, Lentils and chickpeas are far cheaper then a packet of mince to make bolognaise, it is just people not knowing what to do or how to do it. You can make the switch and save money. I mean, how much is a pack of chicken breasts? £5? and yet you can buy quorn fillets for half that as an example. Veggie mince is cheaper then beef mince as well either fresh or frozen (fresh is comparable, frozen is cheaper)

[UK Kat Von D]

 

19 minutes ago, mim731 said:

I can't see it, not that its a bad idea mind, but aside from it going against the larger societal grain (for now, certainly), union support is still a huge part of the Labour voting base for the short term at least. Job losses in the meat industry (and you have made your position clear on that subject) would likely not sit well with the unions.

My position that people will always need to eat so there will be jobs in the food sector regardless of diets? Some people still struggle to grasp it I think. 

As I said, Corbyn has already put people into positions of power who want to implement these changes. That wouldn’t be by accident. It got the expected backlash at the time, but people forgot about it pretty quickly. As I’ve also said, gradual rises over a few years will minimise any issues.

 

6 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Look, if Quorn vegan nuggets  or vegeterian processed food suddenly became cheaper then processed meat, people would switch.It's the fact Vegan/Vegeterian food costs more that is the problem. 

That statement isn't strictly true. I mean, Lentils and chickpeas are far cheaper then a packet of mince to make bolognaise, it is just people not knowing what to do or how to do it. You can make the switch and save money. I mean, how much is a pack of chicken breasts? £5? and yet you can buy quorn fillets for half that as an example. Veggie mince is cheaper then beef mince as well either fresh or frozen (fresh is comparable, frozen is cheaper)

It isn’t just the cost that’s an issue, it is what is available and what tastes better. If vegan food is cheaper to make, there will naturally be companies putting out more variety and better options. I went to a vegan supermarket last night, because vegan food is more popular here they have more to choose from. Supply and demand 

[Keith Houchen]

2 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

My position that people will always need to eat so there will be jobs in the food sector regardless of diets? Some people still struggle to grasp it I think. 

But that's incredibly simplistic.  People grasp it alright, but they see the nuance and realise the difference in various jobs within the food sector.  Just because you're a butcher doesn't mean you're going to be a vegetable picker, even though it's the same sector.

 

[Hannibal Scorch]

6 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

But that's incredibly simplistic.  People grasp it alright, but they see the nuance and realise the difference in various jobs within the food sector.  Just because you're a butcher doesn't mean you're going to be a vegetable picker, even though it's the same sector.

 

This is the big question right. We have huge industries in meat and dairy. If we all went Vegan tomorrow, those farms would need to adapt or more likely would close. So what happens to that workforce?

[UK Kat Von D]

13 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

But that's incredibly simplistic.  People grasp it alright, but they see the nuance and realise the difference in various jobs within the food sector.  Just because you're a butcher doesn't mean you're going to be a vegetable picker, even though it's the same sector.

 

I know it’s more complicated than I could possible sum up in one sentence. A graduel shift over ten years is not as impossible as everyone wants to pretend it is.

Butcher is an awful example because they make up a tiny section of the food sector, they would probably also switch to being a vegan butchers that sells seitan and homemade meat substitutes rather than picking vegetables.

Also Hannibal, it is not a big question, because the world is not going vegan over night. Why do people use impossible hypotheticals to disprove common sense? I say a gradual change over 12 years and you respond with “but what about overnight?” 

Not overnight, gradually over time where the workforce moves into other areas where there is demand. That is how society has moved forward over the last 200 years. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by UK Kat Von D

[Hannibal Scorch]

1 minute ago, UK Kat Von D said:

I know it’s more complicated than I could possible sum up in one sentence. A graduel shift over ten years is not as impossible as everyone wants to pretend it is.

Butcher is an awful example because they make up a tiny section of the food sector, they would probably also switch to being a vegan butchers that sells seitan and homemade meat substitutes rather than picking vegetables.

Cutting up and preparing a dead animal is not the same skill as making Seitan which is not dissimilar to being a baker or chef really. People do this work for decades and they are not going to be able to just put the knive down and buy stand mixer. It is not that simple

[UK Kat Von D]

1 minute ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Cutting up and preparing a dead animal is not the same skill as making Seitan which is not dissimilar to being a baker or chef really. People do this work for decades and they are not going to be able to just put the knive down and buy stand mixer. It is not that simple

It is a lot more similar than picking vegetables which is what it was originally compared to. Do you think people do this work for decades are too stupid to learn how to put ingredients together? Are they only capable of cutting up flesh and have no other life skills?

[David]

1 hour ago, UK Kat Von D said:

If it’ll really make you happy I’ll ask Dr Martens to give me a few more pairs of shoes, but you can’t make me wear them #fuckthesystem

It will, so please do.

[Hannibal Scorch]

6 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

It is a lot more similar than picking vegetables which is what it was originally compared to. Do you think people do this work for decades are too stupid to learn how to put ingredients together? Are they only capable of cutting up flesh and have no other life skills?

Probably? If you suddenly forgot to be able to Tattoo tomorrow, what would you be able to do? I know it's extreme, but I don't think you understand how mastering a skill for years and suddenly not being able to do it means they have nothing else to full back on. Not as a trade at least. Or are you suggesting that any skilled workers can go and earn less money stacking shelves in a supermarket?

[Keith Houchen]

The reason I used a butcher picking vegetables as an example is because it’s hugely reductive and lacks nuance. 

[UK Kat Von D]

8 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Probably? If you suddenly forgot to be able to Tattoo tomorrow, what would you be able to do? I know it's extreme, but I don't think you understand how mastering a skill for years and suddenly not being able to do it means they have nothing else to full back on. Not as a trade at least. Or are you suggesting that any skilled workers can go and earn less money stacking shelves in a supermarket?

You said tomorrow again. If I had to transition to another job over the next few years I’d be totally fine. I’ve set up several different businesses over the last ten years and I’m currently working on another project unrelated from tattooing. Hoping to have it up and running by early next year

[Keith Houchen]

Let's say my local butchers, a family business, probably make the switch to being a vegan butcher.  They'll have to do it while still running the current one otherwise they'll not make a living while the training goes into learning a new craft.  They'll make the switch over time so they phase out the meat products in favour of the vegan ones so they can maintain the money while the staff are training.

Trouble is with that, what kind of vegan would buy products from a shop that still sells and up to recently only sold raw meat products.  They'd go under quick smart.

Then again, one of the family at the butchers is a fucking arsehole who likes baiting vegans on the local facebook page by posting pics of the latest game birds he's shot by "Innocently" asking if anyone wants some pheasant feathers before calling people snowflakes and shit like that so fuck that guy, hope he goes broke. And I hope fragile meat eaters fuck off too, the arseholes.

 

Anyway, made a vegan bolognese last night, it's one of my staples of the weekly dinner and one of the reasons I use vegan mince is because it tastes nicer.

[David]

In a way, I'm actually fighting the good fight by buying meat from these butchers, keeping the lights on and saving them from the terribly 'Tory fates that the vegan toffs want to inflict upon them.

Fuck it, I'll add some more meat to my weekly shop I think. 

[Hannibal Scorch]

4 minutes ago, David said:

In a way, I'm actually fighting the good fight by buying meat from these butchers, keeping the lights on and saving them from the terribly 'Tory fates that the vegan toffs want to inflict upon them.

Fuck it, I'll add some more meat to my weekly shop I think. 

Troll level 4

[David]

Just now, Hannibal Scorch said:

Troll level 4

Just thinking out loud, really. I know a few local butchers, and they're hardworking, decent fellas who put in a fair bit of graft. All this chat about them going out of business is enough to make you think, isn't it? Wouldn't like to see them go under.

Ordinarily I'd maybe pick up an option for dinner at Tesco or whatever, but I think I'll make a point of stopping by their shop and buying there instead. Supporting local business, isn't it? Can't be a bad thing.