UFC 225: Whittaker vs Romero 2

[ColinBollocks]

He didn't land a significant strike in the fight, though. Fair enough, we have all come to realise Gall is a decent fighter, but leaving out all the "it's the taking part that counts" bollocks, to have a hyped fight on a PPV and get so badly handled is embarrassing for Punk - going by his post-fight press deals he was clearly very humbled by it all. I think anyone with a clue went in with rock bottom expectations and Punk smashed them. Any fighter will tell you losing is embarrassing/humiliating, and I'm sure Punk will feel no different, seeing how it went down.

I don't know how the general fan thought it would go down. Maybe some were tuning in thinking Punk had a chance? I bet some do in this fight too, seeing it's Mike Jackson he's in there with.

As discussed, I quite like Punk, and he has my respect for still wanting to carry on and make a million or so, but exhibition or not I'm just not really arsed with him v some Mike Jackson type; I've seen him fight and he's shit at it. Although, I should add, if it's CM Punk v some other celebrity of equal shitness, now you have my hard earned coin / BT Sport viewership. CM Punk v JCVD is the fight to cure all erectile dysfunction. Pepsi v Coke.

Edited April 18, 2018 by ColinBollocks

[wandshogun09]

I'm 100% with Colin on this. I get everything David is saying and I can't even really disagree. It's correct. It is an exhibition fight and I get why it's there. I'm just over the Punk thing. It'd be nice for him if he got that UFC win, even if it is just over Mike Jackson, and then left it a that. A feel good ending. But I just don't give much of a shit this time. People often shat on the women fighters when they first came in for 'having no technique' or being 'subpar MMA fighters'. And they were nowhere near as bad as Punk and Jackson. It doesn't help in my case that I really don't find Punk likeable in the slightest. I'll never deny that what he's done is admirable and gutsy and all that good stuff. And if they're willing to pay him handsomely for pursuing a dream then you absolutely can't knock the guy for that. But I can't warm to him at all. He's not a guy I find myself wanting to root for. I've always got the dickhead vibe off him. 

And like Colin says, it's not even a freakshow. It's just two shit fighters in a cage. At least when the Japanese put two shitarses in there they have a giant vs a big fat bastard or something. Giant Silva vs Sentoryu Miller or Bob Sapp vs Akebono type shite. They should've gone the whole hog abc chucked a load of money a celebrity's way. The JCVD idea is perfect. Fuck it. If you're going to do the ridiculousness, do it all the way. Punk vs Jackson feels like neither a legitimate fight or a proper freakshow. It's just some cold exhibition match. Basically like the TUF elimination fights but with commentators and a crowd. 

I don't have a problem with it necessarily. It's one fight on a card full of great ones. It just always felt to me like it should've been a one off thing and now they're milking it. Say he gets smashed again here, how far do we go with this 'ahh fair play to the bloke for trying'? Do they let him go 0-5? 0-7? And even if Punk does beat this Mike Jackson, people are probably going to cry 'fix' or 'work' anyway. It's just a bit cack. 

[David]

The one thing I would say is that it doesn't deserve to be on this card. There's no way it should be on the PPV segment of such a stacked card.

If this were a Fight Night show, then fair enough. Especially a Fight Night show in Chicago. At that point it would probably be replacing a couple of no-names, which isn't fair from a sporting perspective, but this isn't sport. Not anymore, really.

This is where the UFC is now, though. 

[jimufctna24]

12 hours ago, David said:

Thing is Colin, maybe five years ago I'd have agreed with you, but not today.

What's the criteria required to be a UFC fighter today? The ability to draw eyeballs and sell shows. 

I don't think this is a recent trend. The UFC have promoted Jame Toney and Sean Gannon in the past. Two fighters who were signed based on their perceived ability to draw eyeballs, not based on their merit. However, I see two key differences with Punk compared to those two. Firstly, Toney and Gannon were one-shot deals. Once they were massacred by UFC mainstays, they were thankfully never seen in the UFC again. In contrast, Punk has been given a second chance, despite being shown up in his UFC debut. 

Secondly, I would argue that a good portion of MMA fans are better-informed these days. Yes, most MMA forums and comment sections are full of morons, but most of them at least know enough to know that Punk is out of his depth. Back in 2005, most visitors to the UFC's website legitimately thought that Gannon was going to beat Brandon Lee Hinkle. Likewise, despite the likes of Jordan Breen screaming "did you not see UFC 1" - there was still some debate in 2010 about how a pure boxer would fair under MMA rules. It wasn't considered a formality that Toney was going to lose in some quarters. The Ray Mercer knockout of Sylvia created a false impression. 

I should also add that the UFC have lost a lot of good-will in recent years - a point I suspect you agree with, and partially explains why you take the position that you do. They are bit more shameless today. Back in 2010, the UFC cut links with Kimbo Slice. At the time, he was 1-1 in the UFC. They could have just about milked him for another fight if they really wanted to do. But they didn't presumably because they were not that desperate at the time, and perhaps felt that Kimbo was hurting their image a little bit. Today, they don't care as much. Hence why Punk is getting a second chance, which no fighter of his calibre has received since Dana and Co took over in the early 2000's. Even Tank Abbot circa 2003 was a better MMA fighter than Punk.

 

[David]

I get all of that Jim, and I agree. But, I've kind of come to accept that this is how the UFC is now.

We're talking about a company who were prepared to give a guy who had won two titles and never defended either a crack at a third fucking title before he fucked it up by smashing up a bus.

None of it matters any more really, the rankings, merit, even ability. It doesn't count for much these days. It's what sells, and what draws interest. And a 0-1 novice who's almost 40 years old is in there because he's a former pro wrestler with a fanbase.

I'm just thankful that they aren't throwing him in a main event, and that he's further down the card and is facing someone of similar ability. 

[Carbomb]

Only celebrity fighter I can think of who did well is Herschel Walker. And that was in Strikeforce, much more fitting with Coker's style.

[jimufctna24]

The closest the UFC ever came to promoting a pure celebrity fight was when they tried to put together a fight between Wesley Snipes and Joe Rogan in the mid-2000's. That would have probably been a car-crash. Perhaps similar to Kimbo vs Dada 5000. 

In many ways the UFC have come full-circle this century. They started off by being quite open to putting pure novelty fighters in the cage (Rogan, Snipes, Gannon, etc). Lesnar and Kimbo don't really count. Both had MMA experience before entering the UFC. Kimbo at the very least had beaten a top 50 heavyweight in James Thompson - even if he was lucky in doing so. Lesnar had an MMA fight under his belt and legitimate credentials from his time in the amateur wrestling world. 

As the UFC became more mainstream, they shied away from booking novelty acts. Partially because they didn't really need to. They were less desperate for attention or a cheap number. Toney was the only real example of a novelty fighter cropping up in the UFC this decade before Punk came along. Thinking about it, I get why David specified "five years ago" on the previous page -- it was a different time back then. I don't think Dana would have entertained Punk getting a fight on a PPV 6-8 years ago. I am not even sure if he would have let him on TUF. 

Edited April 19, 2018 by jimufctna24
I'm a div who presses the wrong buttons.

[Egg Shen]

22 hours ago, Carbomb said:

Only celebrity fighter I can think of who did well is Herschel Walker. And that was in Strikeforce, much more fitting with Coker's style.

How about Kimbo? a fighter of sorts when he started but nowhere near deserving of the platform he was given to fight on if you wanna talk merit. Yet the guy did record TV numbers and as a fan it was brilliant entertainment. I have zero issue with Punk fighting in the UFC, as long as hes matched appropriately it doesnt matter. If you have an issue with it, skip it.

[Carbomb]

I sort of had Kimbo down as a fighter because of his background. Also had James Toney down as a fighter rather than a celebrity, even though he turned out to be no good. I personally have never had an issue with Punk in the UFC, as he's been handled appropriately.

[wandshogun09]

I don't think many people actually have 'an issue' with it. I'm not seeing a load of backlash or anything. But people are allowed to say it's a bit shit if it's a bit shit. And two 0-1 fighters fighting on a UFC PPV main card IS a bit shit however you want to dress it up. And I don't care what anyone says, there has to be a cutoff to this. If Punk loses again here, especially if he gets battered, that should really be it. It's one thing getting wrecked by a young prospect like Mickey Gall. It's another thing entirely getting walloped by a nothing happening 0-1 shitehawk like Mike Jackson. If Punk wins and looks even semi decent, fair enough. If he wants to fight again give him a shot. But if he gets bashed by Mike bastard Jackson they need to pull the plug on Operation Punk. For his own safety if nothing else. If you're getting beat up by Mike Jackson then MMA is not for you. Sorry. Bucket lists or not that's just the way it is. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by wandshogun09

[David]

I actually think that win or lose this is it for Punk.

If he loses, he's done.

If he wins, he's the guy who took up MMA late in life, got into the UFC and won a fight in his home town on PPV. You can't get better than that.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, that's the way i'd like to see it go. I'm not even a Punk fan but I have no desire to see him get hurt out there. And as you say, a UFC win in Chicago on PPV is as good as it's getting for him so that's the perfect time to get out. I guess he feels like he needs to redeem himself for the Gall fight. He probably feels like he never even got to fight that night, Gall just ran right over him. Even if he loses a decision here but it's competitive and he has his moments, he'll probably be a lot happier and maybe that will still be enough for him to feel content to walk away. 

I know when the UFC signed him we were talking about a commentary gig or whatever. I wonder if he'd still be up for that? That's no doubt something he'd pick up a lot easier. 

[David]

3 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Yeah, that's the way i'd like to see it go. I'm not even a Punk fan but I have no desire to see him get hurt out there. And as you say, a UFC win in Chicago on PPV is as good as it's getting for him so that's the perfect time to get out. I guess he feels like he needs to redeem himself for the Gall fight. He probably feels like he never even got to fight that night, Gall just ran right over him. Even if he loses a decision here but it's competitive and he has his moments, he'll probably be a lot happier and maybe that will still be enough for him to feel content to walk away. 

I know when the UFC signed him we were talking about a commentary gig or whatever. I wonder if he'd still be up for that? That's no doubt something he'd pick up a lot easier. 

I honestly think that putting Punk in with Gall back then was a bad move. Thought it then, think it now. He had no business fighting someone that young and that good. They knew the dude was a real prospect.

Punk was an 0-0 novice in his late 30's for fuck sake, they should have just given him Mike Jackson the first time around. 

[wandshogun09]

Unsurprisingly, old CM made the poster;

[Supremo]

I’m seeing a lot of people complaining that CM Punk is on the poster. It boggles the mind.