Pinc Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Pitcos was definitely, 100%, taking the piss out of the three or four posts which preceded his. Anyone who didn't get that doesn't know how to UKFF properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 And if you think that historic victims have probably spent the last 30-40 years trying to forget what happened to them, is it really that surprising that some of the details might be wrong, or they have actually managed to block part of it out? Precisely. As I've repeated ad nauseum, in all cases, a not guilty verdict doesn't equal a false allegation. Keith, a genuine question as you know more about this subject than most. Do we actually see that many false allegations, do you reckon? I'm aware that's a guess and no more, but I'm curious as to what your gut would say Approximately 2% of reported rapes end with the accuser being charged with false reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted February 12, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 And if you think that historic victims have probably spent the last 30-40 years trying to forget what happened to them, is it really that surprising that some of the details might be wrong, or they have actually managed to block part of it out? Precisely. As I've repeated ad nauseum, in all cases, a not guilty verdict doesn't equal a false allegation. Keith, a genuine question as you know more about this subject than most. Do we actually see that many false allegations, do you reckon? I'm aware that's a guess and no more, but I'm curious as to what your gut would say Approximately 2% of reported rapes end with the accuser being charged with false reporting. Ok, that's helpful, but as you say, that surely doesn't catch all of the ones that are? I mean, I assume they need more than a not guilty verdict for "he assaulted me" to lead to a charge of false reporting? Â If this sounds like I'm trying to suggest false reporting is a rampant thing and everyone whose story doesn't add up is doing that, I'm absolutely not suggesting that, just trying to get a decent idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Ones that are falsely reported tend not to go to trial. It's established during the investigation that the allegation simply can't be true. So few reported rapes actually get to trial, most of the time because the survivor can't go through the ordeal any longer and drops charges. Â And no, I don't think you are doing that. It's encouraging that you want to find out info, it helps dispell the myths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 And that's a LOT of false reports at that level, as well. A criminal lawyer friend of mine deals with them on a weekly basis, and the number of actual rapes she's dealt with over the years is in low single figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 There are approximately five times the number of convictions for rape than false allegations, and the conviction rate is around 8%. Â When you say actual rapes, do you mean convictions? Because the way you've worded it there implies the overwhelming reports of rape are false. Are you including cases with not enough evidence as false allegations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This is anecdotal obviously, but generally what happens is this. Â Girl A goes out on Saturdat night, gets hammered, shags randome Bloke B. The next morning she has to explain herself to her Boyfriend C, and claims rape. My friend turns up as her appointed lawyer, but it quickly becomes clear that the consumption of alcohol is going to make any prosecution impossible, and so the case doesn't go any further. Not sure if these instances even make it onto official figures, but there's usually one every Saturday night. Â My friend's point (and she is female) is that "rape" is used so often as an excuse for drunkeness that it completely skews both the police and legal professions ability to properly prosecute rape. Â It's not a palatable thought, but it's a reality for a lot of people on the ground by all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted February 13, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2014 Depends how drunk you are, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurryAngel Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 But then they could just say something along the lines of "I only had a couple of drinks. He must have spiked it". Â Until the whole Yewtree operation was brought up I personally tended to side with the celebrity over the accuser. I mean it seemed like every other week a footballer or someone was being accused. (Johnny Evans was once wasn't he?) Â The Ulrika Johnson/John Leslie thing didn't help either. I mean she made the accusations against *someone* and when it was announced that Leslie was that guy the press had a field day. He was found not guilty but his career was ruined. If it wasn't him then surely she should have said something? I appreciate how hard it must be for a survivor/victim to come forward but she just left him to rot in the public glare. I thought it was disgusting and she can't have done much good for the cause in the long run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Knowing how difficult it is to get a case to court, I usually assume the person is guilty if it gets that far. As Houchen has said often, not guilty doesn't mean innocent, it means often "not proven". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoKonjic Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This is anecdotal obviously, but generally what happens is this. Â Girl A goes out on Saturdat night, gets hammered, shags randome Bloke B. The next morning she has to explain herself to her Boyfriend C, and claims rape. My friend turns up as her appointed lawyer, but it quickly becomes clear that the consumption of alcohol is going to make any prosecution impossible, and so the case doesn't go any further. Not sure if these instances even make it onto official figures, but there's usually one every Saturday night. Â My friend's point (and she is female) is that "rape" is used so often as an excuse for drunkeness that it completely skews both the police and legal professions ability to properly prosecute rape. Â It's not a palatable thought, but it's a reality for a lot of people on the ground by all accounts. Â Or Girl A goes out Saturday night, Bloke B rapes her. The next morning when she reports rape, people make suggestions that it was a drunken mistake she was up for at the time. Â My point is that "drunkeness" is used so often as an excuse for rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted February 13, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2014 For sure, and I don't think anyone would dispute that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted February 13, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2014 Rape is such an emotive crime that IMO the general public should just be kept out of it & anyone accused shouldn't be named until it goes to court. If you're a public figure your career can be killed regardless of the verdict. People with no information of the case chiming in, defending their fave actor/footballer because the character they portray is nice or they play for their team. On the other side people seemingly just wanting to fulfil some morbid desire to see someone fucked over with 'he probably did it #ibelieveher' bollocks. Both different cunty sides of the same coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Thesz Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Pitcos was definitely, 100%, taking the piss out of the three or four posts which preceded his. Anyone who didn't get that doesn't know how to UKFF properly. Â Â Yeah yoou are spot on, it's me who should apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Bifkin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Rape is such an emotive crime that IMO the general public should just be kept out of it & anyone accused shouldn't be named until it goes to court. If you're a public figure your career can be killed regardless of the verdict. People with no information of the case chiming in, defending their fave actor/footballer because the character they portray is nice or they play for their team. On the other side people seemingly just wanting to fulfil some morbid desire to see someone fucked over with 'he probably did it #ibelieveher' bollocks. Both different cunty sides of the same coin. Â True. Although I have absolutely no knowledge of the case, I will be gutted if DLT gets let off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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