TheShowOff Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Yeah, Michaels had a good reason to be in the HHH/Undertaker match, which played into the story leading up to and during the bout. Austin obviously doesn't. Unless he's still pissed about the Ministry. Â Indeed, and as I said before, Michaels isn't the box office attraction Austin was/is. Undertaker and HHH have had many high profile matches in the last 10 odd years in contract to what should be an epic (pretty much) first meeting between Cena / Undertaker. The HHH match wasn't the main event of Wrestlemania. There are a lot of different factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted January 17, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2013 The fact is, Â ... the fact is, I made a throwaway comment without any thought behind it, which has been misconstrued as a serious suggestion and decried as having no reason, so I've given a few positives from it if they did go in that direction. No, they probably wouldn't make Austin the ref. No, it doesn't need it. Happy? Or should I ready myself for more asinine references to Russo match types that have about as much relevance to the topic as comparing Ultimate Warrior and Kenta Kobashi does to the Cesaro debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShowOff Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) The fact is, Â ... the fact is, I made a throwaway comment without any thought behind it, which has been misconstrued as a serious suggestion and decried as having no reason, so I've given a few positives from it if they did go in that direction. No, they probably wouldn't make Austin the ref. No, it doesn't need it. Happy? Or should I ready myself for more asinine references to Russo match types that have about as much relevance to the topic as comparing Ultimate Warrior and Kenta Kobashi does to the Cesaro debate? Â Well feel free to pop into that debate with your two cents also and see if that one goes anywhere. Â Also, go back and read the last page, it would appear that you are the one who checked your dummy out somewhat to my joke reply to what you have now claimed was a joke itself. Edited January 17, 2013 by TheShowOff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted January 17, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Well feel free to pop into that debate with your two cents also and see if that one goes anywhere. Â Already have done, pointing out that Twinn's being moronic by dismissing an opinion (namely yours) as "utter shite." Â Also, go back and read the last page, it would appear that you are the one who checked your dummy out somewhat to my joke reply to what you have now claimed was a joke itself. Â All I've done is try and offer counter argument. I'm happy with my status as a butthurt little bitch when I feel I'm being drawn into an argument for no reason, but your viagra on a pole line, as well as randomly having a pop at Japanese wrestling in a conversation about Cesaro who doesn't work there, make you come across as a flame-baiting troll, and I'm as bored of this as I'm sure you are. Edited January 17, 2013 by air_raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The only thing I can't see is Undertaker submitting, it would more likely be a twenty-seven chair shots type deal for me.  That's what makes the proposed heel turn even more amazing for me.  To be honest the submission would follow the 27 chair shots, but because nobody really thinks that realistically he would lose at all, (let alone submit), to me every single wrestling fan (from kids to the older fans) would instantly hate him Loads of older fans already do. And kids wouldn't need him to end the streak to turn on him. It would be a phenomenal ending for me, though, because the reaction to it would be like "18 seconds" and Cena beating Lesnar times a million. Cena's new T-shirt that night should be yellow with a trollface in the middle.  , and it would take Cena to that "level" ,[the real superstar level], that they've tried pushing him to for years. He's already been there for years.  And with massive heel heat, ultimately comes a huge face turn down the line, which is what WWE would want......It'd be a long term deal, but would pay off. See The Rock as an example, floundered as a white-meat baby-face in the early years, let his charisma chine through as a despised top level heel, and turned that into the mega super over face that we see today. That process already happened with Cena in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsClobberingTime Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Cena beating Undertaker would be the absolute most moronic waste of time they could possibly come up with, other than Hulk Hogan coming back and beating him. Â Cena has NOTHING to gain from beating Taker. NOTHING. There are numerous ways of turning Cena heel without shitting on Taker's legacy for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshC Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Well, Hogan dropped the title to Undertaker TWICE, so he does owe him one! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jock Knew Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 To me, the crowing from certain pockets of fans that "*insert wrestler* NEEDS to end the streak" is just another way of saying "look how great my fantasy booking is". It has happened with Randy Orton, Batista, John Cena, CM Punk - an argument will be made for ANY given wrestler at that certain point in time given their position on the card is appropriate. Â I think time and fan reaction has shown that the majority don't want the streak to end, so we can all stop falling over ourselves looking at ways why the streak "HAS" to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members neil's bitch Posted January 17, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2013 Loads of older fans already do. And kids wouldn't need him to end the streak to turn on him. It would be a phenomenal ending for me, though, because the reaction to it would be like "18 seconds" and Cena beating Lesnar times a million. Cena's new T-shirt that night should be yellow with a trollface in the middle. Â Ahh, but many fans are starting to say "well you know, hes ok etc etc". As an example the only people recently I've seen that activly hate him now are the ROH type who say "LOL he cant wrestle!!". With the turn how i suggested it, IMPO, all the younger kids would hate him. The guys who already do have an excuse to boo more, and those of use who just see Cena as "generic super cena" would most likely instantly hate him because he tapped out Taker and took the streak. Â As people have said he doesnt "need" it, but for me it'll take him to that superstar level where he should be. Â He's already been there for years. Â Has he really though? Think about it, is he WWE's top guy, of course he is. But is he on the level Triple H/Rock/Austin or Taker are? No he is not, and WWE have been shoving him down our throats for years, but that doesn't mean he is at that level. To me this would bring to that next level. Â That process already happened with Cena in 2003. Â He did turn in 2003, correct, but the main point is that whilst he was "over" as a smart ass mid card heel, his initial face turn was received well. WWE changed his character to be a bit of a more straight laced type for the younger audience, and his initial charisma that won us over slowly faded, and as such he never really got as over as he should be. Â What I'm saying is with the heel turn, it allows him to reconnect with the fans initially through his heel promos, again as the rock did, so when he turns face again in a few years, he's even more super over. Â Again this is all my personal opinion, but I think it'd work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Ahh, but many fans are starting to say "well you know, hes ok etc etc". As an example the only people recently I've seen that activly hate him now are the ROH type who say "LOL he cant wrestle!!". With the turn how i suggested it, IMPO, all the younger kids would hate him. The guys who already do have an excuse to boo more, and those of use who just see Cena as "generic super cena" would most likely instantly hate him because he tapped out Taker and took the streak. Do you only read threads about the shows, or watch them? Cena still gets a hell of a lot of boos in arenas. Â Has he really though? Think about it, is he WWE's top guy, of course he is. But is he on the level Triple H/Rock/Austin or Taker are? No he is not, and WWE have been shoving him down our throats for years, but that doesn't mean he is at that level. To me this would bring to that next level. He's already been at that level for years. He's easily WWE's fourth biggest ever. And a heel turn isn't going to put him past Rock, Hogan and Austin. Nor is a win over Undertaker at WrestleMania. It would cement his legacy, particularly on the Internet, but that result would do more damage to Undertaker's legacy than good for Cena's. Â He did turn in 2003, correct, but the main point is that whilst he was "over" as a smart ass mid card heel, his initial face turn was received well. WWE changed his character to be a bit of a more straight laced type for the younger audience, and his initial charisma that won us over slowly faded, and as such he never really got as over as he should be. Charisma doesn't fade (or Cena's certainly didn't anyway, his character just evolved), and WWE is in a far better position being family-friendly than the watered-down attitude era knock-off it had been for years before 2008. And chances are, it's going to stay that way, so: Â What I'm saying is with the heel turn, it allows him to reconnect with the fans initially through his heel promos, again as the rock did, so when he turns face again in a few years, he's even more super over. When he turns face again in a few years, he'd likely go the same way he is now, and the divs again would go "SuperCena, he's for kids, I hate him, push a new young cruiserweight instead" and all that. WWE needs its top face to be what John Cena is currently, which goes back to the same old "TURN CENA HEEL INSTEAD OF 4 KIDS" debate, where the key problems are that nobody else on the roster can fill that role and if they did, they'd be getting booed and there'd be threads about turning them heel that would replace the Cena ones. But the other key question is has JC got many more years in his career to play out the same transformation he already did successfully ten years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaaad! Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Anyone defending The Streak and saying it shouldn't end is being far too precious. Yes, it's probably been made out to be the biggest deal in WWE history at this point, but the whole point of win streaks is that they end. Personally I'm in two minds about whether or not it will end, but whether or not it should end? Absolutely it should. That's the whole point of wrestling, to give someone a rub. Nobody benefits from Undertaker retiring undefeated at WrestleMania except him. If he does then I'm sure that's great for his legacy, but it'll have been a waste of an opportunity. His legacy is already cemented, he's been in WWE for over twenty years and won shitloads. He's one of the most recognisable characters ever. The Streak is important, but it's not vital to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsClobberingTime Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 He's had really shitty title runs though. To have that legacy would be well deserving, and I can't begrudge the guy that. Â Too precious? No. Respectful perhaps, I'm not sure how else to put it. I just think it's his 'thing' and to (a) risk it on a potential nobody for a rub or (b) waste it on someone like Cena so pointlessly just isn't necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted January 17, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Cena's going to be 37 by the time WrestleMania 30 rolls around. He's already a physical mess. He'll be winding down in the next 2-3 years. He's had neck surgery, shoulder surgery, bad elbows, bad knees and all sorts of other shit that he's either not taken time off for or came back way to quick from. He's not the future of the promotion. He shouldn't be ending the streak. Edited January 17, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 17, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2013 The way I see it, WWE have through no fault of their own booked themselves into a corner concerning the Streak - there's no-one around good enough to take it, and those who were once prime candidates to do so are now established so as to not need it or have proven themselves to be not really worthy enough. Â Add to that that the Streak is probably now the biggest deal in wrestling the world over, and you have a new, ironic problem: the kind of people who would benefit from taking it, i.e. young blue-chippers, are by their very definition the kind who just wouldn't warrant a match with Taker for the biggest prize in the biggest match on the biggest stage of them all. In short, if they're good enough to get a Streak match, they're beyond benefiting from winning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Too precious? No. Respectful perhaps, I'm not sure how else to put it. I just think it's his 'thing' and to (a) risk it on a potential nobody for a rub or (b) waste it on someone like Cena so pointlessly just isn't necessary. Bingo. There's no guarantee that ending the streak does anything positive long-term. It's not a title win that can just be traded back if it doesn't work. You could end up with a definitive blemish on Undertaker's legacy that was caused by a Kennedy/Lashley type who ends up in TNA or out of the job two years later. And the sole reason to have Cena end it is that it's the ultimate trolling of the Cena haters. His victory poses with them at ringside would be better than anything that happened in the attitude era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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