Rey_Piste Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Noah Southworth said: The site gets updated weekly without fail. We'll know within a week or so when Brock gets tested. Also, Brock failed two tests in short order. You seriously think USADA aren't going to test Brock as soon as they possibly can? I fully expect them to send someone out the second Brock tells them he's back in the testing pool. The whole point is the tests are at random so he may be in the pool for a while before he gets tested for out of competition testing. If it's suddenly announced he's facing Jon Jones or Mark Hunt for NYE then he will get tested ASAP and regularly. Isn't he all over the place with the WWE at the moment anyway? I can't see USADA spending a load of cash just to chase one guy around the globe for him to piss in a cup. It'ss easier when they know that someone will be spending weeks in a fight camp at one location to pick and chose a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Southworth Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said: The whole point is the tests are at random so he may be in the pool for a while before he gets tested for out of competition testing. If it's suddenly announced he's facing Jon Jones or Mark Hunt for NYE then he will get tested ASAP and regularly. Isn't he all over the place with the WWE at the moment anyway? I can't see USADA spending a load of cash just to chase one guy around the globe for him to piss in a cup. It'ss easier when they know that someone will be spending weeks in a fight camp at one location to pick and chose a day. USADA can choose to test someone at any time. Brock can't fight until he finishes his suspension, and that, like his re-entry into the testing pool, will be something that will become public knowledge very soon after it happens. There's also the matter of WWE having to agree to let Brock fight as long as he remains under contract to them. Brock isn't 'all over the place' with WWE; he rarely goes abroad. So his location won't be that hard to figure out. The bottom line is that Brock's re-entry into the testing pool, his firstĀ drug test, and his resumption of his suspension will not be secret for very long. We are going to find out about these things very quickly after they happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Just now, Noah Southworth said: USADA can choose to test someone at any time. Brock can't fight until he finishes his suspension, and that, like his re-entry into the testing pool, will be something that will become public knowledge very soon after it happens. There's also the matter of WWE having to agree to let Brock fight as long as he remains under contract to them. Brock isn't 'all over the place' with WWE; he rarely goes abroad. So his location won't be that hard to figure out. The bottom line is that Brock's re-entry into the testing pool, his firstĀ drug test, and his resumption of his suspension will not be secret for very long. We are going to find out about these things very quickly after they happen. I thought he was supposed to be their champion from what I read, it's weird he isn't all over the place. From what I read his contract is up soon with WWE so he could walk from that andd he has already had a fight for UFC under WWE contract. So it's totally not out of the realms of reality for him to have another fight for UFC. As for his suspension being up, he can be part of the pool without being in active competition. His suspension is up in the middle of December, so there i every chance for him to get his license renewed for a NYE show.Ā Ā As soon as he has his first test he'll be noted on the site and it will be made public. but since that hasn't happened yet it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 On 10/08/2017 at 11:33 PM, the_mole said: Stipe has to realise that just being UFC champion doesn't make you the big star, Heavyweights like Overeem & Mark Hunt have been fighting in MMA for 15 years and especially Overeem has been near the top since he started just doing MMA & not doing kick boxing. If we ever reach the stage where being the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world doesn't entitle you to earn more money, then there's something seriously wrong. Essentially, that's telling fighters that the belt is worth fuck all, and that being a mouthy cunt who throws hands and get's cracked in the dome is what fighters should be aiming for instead. In other words, don't aim to be champion, aim to get the thumbs up from Dana and a healthy dose of brain damage. That's how you get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mole Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Or aim to be a big draw, he's defended it twice, no more than anyone else has since the title was created about 20 years ago, what's to say he doesn't lose his next fight? So he may not be a long term champion. The Klitschko's weren't big draws outside Europe, you can't make people buy your PPVs, he doesn't click with people like Conor or Ronda do or at least did. He gets paid more than Jon Jones and every other champion not named Conor but none of the champions are fighting like Diego Sanchez or fighters like him and they all are making much more than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members lambyUK Posted August 13, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted August 13, 2017 8 hours ago, David said: If we ever reach the stage where being the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world doesn't entitle you to earn more money, then there's something seriously wrong. Essentially, that's telling fighters that the belt is worth fuck all, and that being a mouthy cunt who throws hands and get's cracked in the dome is what fighters should be aiming for instead. In other words, don't aim to be champion, aim to get the thumbs up from Dana and a healthy dose of brain damage. That's how you get paid. I think you're missing out an awful lot there though David. Miocic has already received a pay increase since being champion, quite a big one.Ā It was only until the Overeem fight did he lose his shit after seeing his pay. Overeem gambled on his contract when he went on that run just before his title fight with Miocic. He gambled being able to go into free agency and it paid off. Miocic needs to fight out his fights on his contract and do this same.Ā It's supply and demand in the end. Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, lambyUK said: I think you're missing out an awful lot there though David. Miocic has already received a pay increase since being champion, quite a big one.Ā It was only until the Overeem fight did he lose his shit after seeing his pay. Overeem gambled on his contract when he went on that run just before his title fight with Miocic. He gambled being able to go into free agency and it paid off. Miocic needs to fight out his fights on his contract and do this same.Ā It's supply and demand in the end. You'll note that I said "if we ever reach the stage", not that we were there already. I know what Miocic makes, he's on the same money (roughly) as Woodley makes, which makes me think that the $600,000 per fight region is pretty standard for a champion. If we don't see that amount rise in comparison with what other "attraction" fighters are making then surely by default actually winning a belt means less? My point is that in virtually every other sport the pinnacle is usually becoming the champion, winning a title. Being the best. Where MMA, in the main, is even worse thanĀ boxing is in the way that what you earn, how high up the ladder you go and how you're perceived to a certain degree is all down to one man. Dana White. At least in boxing there are different promoters, and on top of that there are regulatory bodies that represent the championship belts who also have a say in how things go. Guys have mandatory title defences that have to be made, and usually within reason these happen. If you win a lot of fights, you're going to get a crack at a title.Ā In MMA, your title shot and your future is determined by how one highly erratic, thin-skinned individual judges you. Go out there and throw hands, take a lot of punches to the dome and get the crowd all fired up and you're gonna get a pat on the head, $50,000 for your troubles and handed the big fights. If, however, you actually go in there with a gameplan that sees you win the fight, retain or win the title, and get out of the cage with the least amount of damage done you're gonna get bollocked in public by your own promoter and have the big money fight taken away from you.Ā If Miocic goes out there and gets into absolute wars like Junior Dos Santos did he'd be getting bonuses, and Dana's big fat coupon would be grinning like fuck at the post-fight presser, talking about how Miocic is "the man", meanwhile the fighter in question is backstage getting their head sewn back together while asking their coach what day of the week it is. I shudder when I think what JDS's quality of life is gonna be like in 15-20 years time. That, for me, is where I see the glass ceiling for MMA. As long as we see the company, and by default the sport, shit on bona fide athletes who would be revered in any other sport, such as Woodley, MMA is never going to be taken seriously. Fans complain about how the boxing "snobs" see MMA and how they look down on it. Seriously man, can you fucking blame them? MMA is nothing more than a bawhair away from WWE in most people's eyes, where the most Jerry Springer-esque fighter is what "draws", and thus those guys are the ones who earn the respect of the man who sets the agenda, and the man who pays the cheques. In boxing, a sport where PPV buys are equally as important, the guys at the top are still the guys who are the best. The likes of Canelo Alvarez, Gennady Golovkin and Sergey Kovalev are the guys earning the money among active boxers, and the guys holding titles. As it should be. Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 David, that is a really good post, I enjoyed reading it. Ā Yours too, lamby, it's a very interesting discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 57 minutes ago, David said: If Miocic goes out there and gets into absolute wars like Junior Dos Santos did he'd be getting bonuses, and Dana's big fat coupon would be grinning like fuck at the post-fight presser, talking about how Miocic is "the man", meanwhile the fighter in question is backstage getting their head sewn back together while asking their coach what day of the week it is. The funny thing there is that Miocic's recent bouts have all been shootouts. He also did get a performance bonus for his knockouts of Arlovski, JDS, and Wedum (3 out of the 4 of his most recent bouts) I get your point overall, but there are exceptions in boxing. Lee Selby holds a portion of a World title, and he just fought on the undercard of a Chris Eubank Jr PPV. The likes of Whyte, Chisora are more well knownĀ (I'm not sure if they make more money) You're right that the fighters who make the most cash in boxing, are almost always the best in their division, and close to being the best in the sport full stop.Ā Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members lambyUK Posted August 13, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted August 13, 2017 There's certainly an awful lot I agree with there David. Some of it I don't though. When a sport is based on a ppv model, you just can't compare it to other sports where winning is simply the most important outcome. I know you've referenced boxing too, but even then the ppv numbers dictate what type of commodity they are. The perfect example was the shit show that was David Haye/Tony Bellew.Ā Both of those guys drew their biggest pay day of their lives. No titles were involved, it was just a heated grudge that drew the paying public in. Unfortunately when the pot fluctuates event to event based on the person at the top of the card, I can't see any other way it can work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, lambyUK said: When a sport is based on a ppv model I think that's the difference right there. Ā UFC is king of MMA, they have it sewn up. Ā Boxing doesn't have one organisation holding all the cards. Ā Hopefully Bellator can change things around but until they do, or until Dana White is gone, MMA will essentially be UFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, lambyUK said: There's certainly an awful lot I agree with there David. Some of it I don't though. When a sport is based on a ppv model, you just can't compare it to other sports where winning is simply the most important outcome. I know you've referenced boxing too, but even then the ppv numbers dictate what type of commodity they are. The perfect example was the shit show that was David Haye/Tony Bellew.Ā Both of those guys drew their biggest pay day of their lives. No titles were involved, it was just a heated grudge that drew the paying public in. Unfortunately when the pot fluctuates event to event based on the person at the top of the card, I can't see any other way it can work. My main point here isn't that grudge matches or fighters who draw fans attention shouldn't get paid, but that in any sport, the champions should always get paid top dollar, with a few small exceptions. Fighters and fans need to see those champions as the bar, the yardstick. And, those champions should aways be promoted as, and heralded as the very best the sport has to offer. What the UFC does is simply insane when it comes to champions that the all-powerful Dana White deems not entertaining enough. For the most part, with the legit titles in boxing you'll see the guys who deserve a crack getting a crack. And the guys who are selling PPV's aren't doing so because they chat shit, wear cool suits or know how to "work" the fans or build fake feuds, they're selling PPV's because the fans want to see them, and the fans want to see them because they're the very best at what they do. In Mighty Mouse and Tyron Woodley we have two guys that the UFC would love to see beaten so they could throw them back down the card. If they were boxers though? They'd be lauded as prime level athletes. Let's be honest, if Mayweather had been an MMA fighter rather than a boxer White would have ripped him long ago as a guy who "doesn't want to fight" and who "fans don't want to see" most likely. The guys a twat who probably still has "faceĀ the pain" on his iPod workout mix. HeĀ belongs in the past with the "just bleed" shite, not heading a major company trying to make inroads into new markets and move onto stage two of its development. His antics with Stitch Duran and Ariel Helwani during the Mayweather vs McGregor fight areĀ fucking embarrassing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mole Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Image matters in lots of sports Beckham especially with sponsors was the highest paid footballer at one point but he wasn't the best player, he was extremely marketable, while the better players didn't have his look. HBO & Showtime had all the top heavyweight fighters at one point, and they usually fought in the US but then, Lewis retired & the Klitschko's took over and heavyweight boxing basically disappeared from those networks because besides a few fights they thought would be marketable they pretty much ignored them and most of those fights went unaired or through Internet PPV companies that's biggest seller is Ring of Honor or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mole Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Mighty Mouse hasn't been called boring by the UFC or the majority of the MMA media. Dana wanted the TJ Dillashaw fight because if you are going for a record, someone the fans have heard of is probably both best for business and probably his toughest challenge but he's fighting Borg and people will not care. Woodley put back to back Snoozers and was booed out the building both times, especially the Maia fight only a small amount of people will find that fight exciting and it wasn't just Woodleys fault but throwing the least amount of punches in a five roubd fight is always going to be talked about more than defending takedowns. Smaller weight classes in Boxing that don't feature Mexicans are usually on Boxing undercards or at least the co-main event, just ask Guillermo Rigondeaux why he isn't a big superstar despite being one of the pound for pound best in Boxing and HBO or whoever don't want him main eventing their events because they know he won't draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Southworth Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 On The MMA Hour, GSP said that it's written into his contract that he must defend the UFC Middleweight Championship if he beats Michael Bisping, and that if he does win, he expects to fight Robert Whittaker next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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