Paid Members Maverick Posted October 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 Neither, more exageratting for comic efffect. Obviously living here is a million times better than living under gadaffi, but I still hate cameron and co. Fair enough, so many people don't appreciate what they have here though, i'd much prefer living in N.I to ROI the NHS deserves more credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members TheBeard Posted October 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 So now Libya has been freed from Gadaffi's regime what will happen to all of the Libyan's that have sought asylum in the UK? With the state of the economy right now, would it not make sense to have them go back to Libya now any threat on their lives has be eradicated. I don't mean that in a BNP 'Send 'em back to where they came from' way. Just that the United Kingdom is fucked financially and one way to save resources some money especially the NHS and police, would be to remove anyone that doesn't NEED to be here anymore. Â Just an opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 They'll go back, they love their country. Â The most encouraging thing I saw was some vox pops on the BBC with random Libyans, and one of the rebel righters, still kitted out with AK47, said "I was an engineer on an oil well, I'm going back to work on Monday". Â The Libyans aren't stupid, they know that they are a rich country and once the oil starts flowing they'll have all the money they need to build a great society. They strike me as an incredibly sensible people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Since we're now seemingly okay with unlawful assassinations of heinous individuals without a trail, can people or some other government also simply execute Bush, Cheney, Blair and Rumsfeld for their crimes (bombing of Afghanistan, direct and indirect use of torture, mistreatment of prisoners of war, invasion of Iraq, hundreds of thousands of people dead, support of and complicity in other countries' terrorism)? Again, I'm not in any way defending a murderous tryant like Gaddafi. But if we decide that the rule of law, the very thing we appear to uphold and value in setting us apart as "civilised" people, doesn't apply to others, why should it apply to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Since we're now seemingly okay with unlawful assassinations of heinous individuals without a trail, can people or some other government also simply execute Bush, Cheney, Blair and Rumsfeld for their crimes (bombing of Afghanistan, direct and indirect use of torture, mistreatment of prisoners of war, invasion of Iraq, hundreds of thousands of people dead, support of and complicity in other countries' terrorism)? Again, I'm not in any way defending a murderous tryant like Gaddafi. But if we decide that the rule of law, the very thing we appear to uphold and value in setting us apart as "civilised" people, doesn't apply to others, why should it apply to us? Vice, it's always been one rule for us and another for others. That's how it's always been, and most likely how it'll always be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mickey Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Always funny to see how folks don't mind brushing basic human rights aside when it suits them  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted October 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 Since we're now seemingly okay with unlawful assassinations of heinous individuals without a trail, can people or some other government also simply execute Bush, Cheney, Blair and Rumsfeld for their crimes (bombing of Afghanistan, direct and indirect use of torture, mistreatment of prisoners of war, invasion of Iraq, hundreds of thousands of people dead, support of and complicity in other countries' terrorism)? Again, I'm not in any way defending a murderous tryant like Gaddafi. But if we decide that the rule of law, the very thing we appear to uphold and value in setting us apart as "civilised" people, doesn't apply to others, why should it apply to us? Who's seemingly ok with it? I got the feeling that most people weren't at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Since we're now seemingly okay with unlawful assassinations of heinous individuals without a trail, can people or some other government also simply execute Bush, Cheney, Blair and Rumsfeld for their crimes (bombing of Afghanistan, direct and indirect use of torture, mistreatment of prisoners of war, invasion of Iraq, hundreds of thousands of people dead, support of and complicity in other countries' terrorism)? Again, I'm not in any way defending a murderous tryant like Gaddafi. But if we decide that the rule of law, the very thing we appear to uphold and value in setting us apart as "civilised" people, doesn't apply to others, why should it apply to us? Â That's all very noble until you realise that it's not your fucking country, and you weren't one of the people who's just spent their entire life brutally repressed by a mad dictator and has suddenly found him in a ditch. Â It's easy to be civilised from your bedroom in leafy suburbia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Since we're now seemingly okay with unlawful assassinations of heinous individuals without a trail, can people or some other government also simply execute Bush, Cheney, Blair and Rumsfeld for their crimes (bombing of Afghanistan, direct and indirect use of torture, mistreatment of prisoners of war, invasion of Iraq, hundreds of thousands of people dead, support of and complicity in other countries' terrorism)? Again, I'm not in any way defending a murderous tryant like Gaddafi. But if we decide that the rule of law, the very thing we appear to uphold and value in setting us apart as "civilised" people, doesn't apply to others, why should it apply to us? That's all very noble until you realise that it's not your fucking country, and you weren't one of the people who's just spent their entire life brutally repressed by a mad dictator and has suddenly found him in a ditch. Â It's easy to be civilised from your bedroom in leafy suburbia. And I'm sure a lot more people would have been okay with it all did it not have the shadow of western intervention looming over it. We don't throw our time & money into this kind of thing just because it's the right thing to do. Â Whatever Government is installed in that country will have favours to repay, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Since we're now seemingly okay with unlawful assassinations of heinous individuals without a trail, can people or some other government also simply execute Bush, Cheney, Blair and Rumsfeld for their crimes (bombing of Afghanistan, direct and indirect use of torture, mistreatment of prisoners of war, invasion of Iraq, hundreds of thousands of people dead, support of and complicity in other countries' terrorism)? Again, I'm not in any way defending a murderous tryant like Gaddafi. But if we decide that the rule of law, the very thing we appear to uphold and value in setting us apart as "civilised" people, doesn't apply to others, why should it apply to us? Who's seemingly ok with it? I got the feeling that most people weren't at all. I know Russia and Moscow have spoken out against it, but overwhelmingly the reaction and the media coverage seems to be pretty much the same as to the assassinations of Bin Laden and Al-awlaki; a simple execution without a trial is okay because of who it is, and people are jubilant that he's dead. But that isn't justice. It's a revenge killing, which is immoral (on more than one level), barbaric and illegal. I can't stress enough that this isn't about who those people we're exucuting are, it's about who we are. Do we truly believe in justice and the rule of law? It's meant to be the very thing that sets us apart from even the most abhorrent people - we didn't just find the Nazis and put bullets through their heads. Â Since we're now seemingly okay with unlawful assassinations of heinous individuals without a trail, can people or some other government also simply execute Bush, Cheney, Blair and Rumsfeld for their crimes (bombing of Afghanistan, direct and indirect use of torture, mistreatment of prisoners of war, invasion of Iraq, hundreds of thousands of people dead, support of and complicity in other countries' terrorism)? Again, I'm not in any way defending a murderous tryant like Gaddafi. But if we decide that the rule of law, the very thing we appear to uphold and value in setting us apart as "civilised" people, doesn't apply to others, why should it apply to us? Â That's all very noble until you realise that it's not your fucking country, and you weren't one of the people who's just spent their entire life brutally repressed by a mad dictator and has suddenly found him in a ditch. Â It's easy to be civilised from your bedroom in leafy suburbia. I get that. But it doesn't make what's happened right, justified, dignified, moral or legal. It's pretty digusting that a wounded, unarmed and bloodied man - however vile and utterly reprehensible he may be - was dragged through the streets, beaten and killed, and now his body is on display in a meat cooler for people to come see. International law, the Geneva Conventions and human rights all exist precisely because we don't want that kind of disgusting behaviour. Â Imagine if George Bush went to Iraq now, and havin destroyed the country figuratively and literally, killing hundreds of thousands of its people in an illegal war, backing Saddam through his worst atrocities and raiding the country's natural resources, the same thing happened to him as Gaddafi. It'd still be gross, immoral and illegal. but I imagine the reaction would be a lot different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mickey Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Yeah, they only execute people like Gadaffi don't they? Â Oh, no wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman89762000 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 So we hate the libyan rebels now for killing a defenceless old man?..... i mean apart from the fact he's a murderous tyrant who inflicted misery and untold deaths on his people for 40 years... But yeah HIS human rights were violated here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I've disliked the rebels from the start, these aren't holier than thou freedom fighters looking to save everyone. Good luck being a black man in Libya with these guys taking over, i've read a ton about the racism from them during this whole thing. Â Oh and don't forget that thier "Prime Minister" was planning on running the country with only his friends and family in ALL top positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 So we hate the libyan rebels now for killing a defenceless old man?..... i mean apart from the fact he's a murderous tyrant who inflicted misery and untold deaths on his people for 40 years... But yeah HIS human rights were violated here... That's the problem with things such as Human Rights, isn't it though? They apply to everyone. Even those who inflicted misery and untold deaths on their people for 40 years (although I've been hearing that things weren't quite that bad in Libya as our press would have us believe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Yeah, they only execute people like Gadaffi don't they? Oh, no wait...  It's bizarre isn't it? I thought war was all honourable and clean like the old black and white WW2 films, and now it turns out bad things happen during conflict. I must attend a demo in London to protest, right after I buy a new thermos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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