David Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 As for Frankie leaving the division...Dana's hinting that he wants him to go fight Aldo at 145. The only reason he's saying that is because 155 is so stacked, 145 has a limited amount of 'money' challengers (some would argue none now Kenny's lost) Â I think if Ross Pearson gets 2 impressive wins, he'll be right in line for a title shot and that'd be a 'money' fight. Â You'd have massive UK ratings, Pearson has a good fanbase over in the US, two very sell-able/entertaining style of fighters and there is always a big promotional push anytime a TUF winner has a title shot. I'd love to see that fight and I honestly think theres a good chance we could see it by the end of next year. Problem is Jose Aldo is going to jump up to 155lb soon. I wouldn't be so sure. Dana usually doesn't like guys switching divisions unless they've cleaned them out, so I doubt he'd be too impressed at Aldo just dumping the belt and moving up. Aldo DID kinda clean out the division no? Edgar is the one who has some challengers left, i think. Once Edgar eventually drops the 155lbs strap Dana will be trying to convince him to drop to 145lbs. He's looking to bring in as many big names there as he can, so it wouldn't make sense for him to allow Aldo to jump up so early. Â Besides, Aldo has hardly been taking out all his opponents convincingly at 145lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted October 11, 2011 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 11, 2011 Fight Of The Night should have went to the main event, without question. That fight featured two of the top fighters in their division putting on one hell of a show. Â I've got no problem with that, I never said Garcia/Phan was a better fight than Edgar/Maynard. But it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks FOTN is all based on opinion and Dana or whoever gets to decide must have loved the Garcia fight. Â In this case I'd have given FOTN to Edgar and Maynard but on the second part of your sentence there, being 2 of the top fighters in their division shouldn't come into it when considering who gets the FOTN bonus imo. Name value or place on the card shouldn't be a factor in that. Otherwise we might aswell call it 'Fight of the Night Between Top Fighters' bonus and leave the curtain jerkers (some of who already fight for pretty stingy amounts) to fight over the scraps. Â If there was a card in the future and a huge fight like GSP/Anderson headlined but the fight itself was just decent and then for some inexplicable reason fucking Eliot Marshall and Stanislav Nedkov had a awesome fight on the unaired prelims. Then to me Eliot and Stan should get the money without a doubt. Being a top guy has shit all to do with that in my opinion. Â I had a bigger problem with UFC 135 where Jones/Rampage got FOTN over a great prelim between Escovedo and Mizugaki. Â FOTN is all opinions anyway. I had no problem with them getting the bonus they fought their arses off. I'd be fine with it going to Edgar/Maynard or Stipe/Beltran too. They may have fought their arses off, but if you're telling me that Garcia deserves an extra $75,000 on top of his fight money then you must be crazy. Â I must be Seriously I don't see a problem with them rewarding someone like Garcia who brings it every time and leaves it all in the cage every time he fights. Sure his technique is horrible/non existant but there's tons of brawlers in the history of MMA/boxing. He's been in some of the most exciting, crazy brawls in MMA with that very style. Fighters who give 100% every time will always be rewarded over guys who fight overly safe. I've got no problem with them rewarding someone like that. Â What did he do to warrant that? He's shit. He can't box, he certainly can't grapple and he gasses after 3 minutes. Â Wanderlei Silva can't box for shit either. He's still one of the greatest fighters in the history of MMA and a legend of the sport. Guys like Chris Leben and Chris Lytle have done well with a brawling style aswell. There's no rule to say you have to fight a certain way and MMA would be dull as fuck if everyone fought the same. Â His grappling is actually not that bad when he shows it. If you get chance to watch his fight with Cole Miller give it a look. He was obviously outclassed by Miller on the ground but if he was so shit at grappling he wouldn't have been able to fend off the endless barrage of submissions Cole threw at him. Cole Miller submitted high level BJJ black belt Jorge Gurgel and couldn't sub Garcia so I think that shows he's got a clue on the ground. Â Leonard Garcia has always fought the same. He's not gonna jab or bob and weave and show head movement but you can rely on him to deliver an exciting fight and get the crowd fired up. That's good enough for me and if they wanna give him extra coin for that I don't see the problem. I'm sure Edgar and Maynard done alright out of the show. Â In the end when I watch an MMA event I love that I can see a technical striking fight, an awesome grappling match where one slight mistake can end the fight, a wild crazy brawl, or 2 wrestlers fighting for dominance. And you can get that all on one card, even all in one fight sometimes. That's what I love about it and you don't get that much variation in any other sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted October 11, 2011 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 11, 2011 Mentioned above was fighters who had beaten every fighter they had ever faced at some point. Like Melendez, GSP and Cruz. I mentioned Maynard as he has beaten every fighter he has faced at some point bar the no contest with Emerson which I felt he was very unlucky not to win as it was a fluke he knocked himself out and was well on his way to finishing Emerson, I am sorry if I did not make that clear. You do realise he lost to Frankie on Sunday so he is in no way apart of that list.  Maynard wouldn't be on the list but not for that reason. He did beat Edgar in their first fight. He never beat Emerson though, they never fought again after the earlier mentioned no contest. So that's the one that keeps him off the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I really enjoyed the show, first one I've got in a while that really felt worth the money. And to quote Chael, you guys all "absolutely suck!" for getting these "PPVs" on ESPN as I recently learned.  Edgar KO'ing Maynard is almost up there with Tito submitting Bader in terms of surprise factor. I thought lil Frankie had no power, but he showed great boxing. The overall fight wasn't as good as the second, Maynard slowed it down too much to conserve energy, which was smart, but outside of the bombs thrown in the 1st round, he got outclassed on the feet.  Aldo vs. Florian was the disappointment of the night. Intelligent gameplan by Florian, but I think Aldo's wrestling was just a little better than anticipated. The overall fight was pretty uneventful, and the new weight classes have had a bad showing this month in championship fights.  Didn't expect Sonnen to rag-doll Stann that easily. The UFC's favourite Marine doesn't seem to be a great sport, I saw him angrily throwing his mouthpiece and giving Chael a begrudging handshake. The story of that one was the promo by Chael though, fantastic work there.  Phan vs. Garcia- fun brawl, but not "what MMA is all about", as Rogan stated. Wild sloppy brawling isn't MMA in 2011. Phan did have better boxing technique and deserved the decision. Not against it being FOTN in terms of entertainment value.  Shocker of the night went to Lauzon fighting like a boss against Guillard, great stuff  I won't comment too much about the prelims, I seemed to like them better than most, and I liked seeing Stipe fight. Against a guy whose head isn't made of concrete, Miocic will look like a total killer. Seeing Pettis add better wrestling to his skill set was great, he could still be a contender at 155. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 In this case I'd have given FOTN to Edgar and Maynard but on the second part of your sentence there, being 2 of the top fighters in their division shouldn't come into it when considering who gets the FOTN bonus imo. Name value or place on the card shouldn't be a factor in that. Otherwise we might aswell call it 'Fight of the Night Between Top Fighters' bonus and leave the curtain jerkers (some of who already fight for pretty stingy amounts) to fight over the scraps. What I meant was that the main event showcased two of the top fighters in their division putting on a superb show of mixed martial arts skill & heart under the pressure of a title fight. Â In my mind displaying the latter but not the former is no good really. Â Obviously if the main event isn't all that great, but we see a really great fight between two lower card guys then the lower card guys should get the nod. Â I must be Seriously I don't see a problem with them rewarding someone like Garcia who brings it every time and leaves it all in the cage every time he fights. He's being rewarded at the expense of other fighters who can actually fight. That $75,000 is a lot of money to the guys in the lower & non-televised card and giving it to a chump simply because he's got a hard head doesn't sit well with me. Â Sure his technique is horrible/non existant but there's tons of brawlers in the history of MMA/boxing. Do all of those brawlers get $75,000 bonuses? Â He's been in some of the most exciting, crazy brawls in MMA with that very style. Fighters who give 100% every time will always be rewarded over guys who fight overly safe. I've got no problem with them rewarding someone like that. Look, I'm not saying that Jon Fitch deserves fight of the night accolades, but surely a pre-requisite to getting any bonus in the UFC should be the ability to actually display MMA skills? Farcical attempts at punches and being able to get punched in the face simply don't cut the mustard at this level. Â Garcia is the drizzling shits, seriously. Check his stats for that fight on Saturday night. Â He attempted 357 punches during that fight, and connected on 82! Â Wanderlei Silva can't box for shit either. He's still one of the greatest fighters in the history of MMA and a legend of the sport. Guys like Chris Leben and Chris Lytle have done well with a brawling style aswell. There's no rule to say you have to fight a certain way and MMA would be dull as fuck if everyone fought the same. The difference is that those guys are actually skilled punchers though. Leben, Lytle & Wanderlei all know (or knew in Wand's case ) how to fight on the feet. They're skilled in that department. Â Check my avatar dude, I'm not averse to a slug-fest, but I do expect those taking part to at least have some idea of what they're doing and to be able to last longer than 3 minutes. I don't need ESPN to see someone throw wild, shitty punches then start sucking air after a few minutes. I can see that shit down the pub every weekend! Â In the end when I watch an MMA event I love that I can see a technical striking fight, an awesome grappling match where one slight mistake can end the fight, a wild crazy brawl, or 2 wrestlers fighting for dominance. And you can get that all on one card, even all in one fight sometimes. That's what I love about it and you don't get that much variation in any other sport. I love a good brawl as well, but I'm not keen on seeing fighters like Garcia get big bonuses when there are much better & more skilled fighters who aren't getting paid much at all. What kind of message does that send? Â Fight with skill, box with the intention of hitting & not getting hit, and put together a good ground game and get no bonuses. Swing like a Mexican Tank Abbott and develop the art of getting punched in the face and walk away with big bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted October 11, 2011 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 11, 2011 Sure his technique is horrible/non existant but there's tons of brawlers in the history of MMA/boxing. Do all of those brawlers get $75,000 bonuses? Â Chris Lytle fucking cleaned up on FOTN bonuses throughout his career. Sure he could box much better than Garcia when he wanted and actually had a decent little pro boxing record but he wasn't any stranger to winging haymakers and hitting air until he gassed either. It's always been the way in the UFC that these types of fights get the FOTN more often than not. Â I'm sure Leben's had his share of bonuses aswell. Â He attempted 357 punches during that fight, and connected on 82! Â You're right, his stats were shocking but it doesn't make the fight any less fun to watch (for me anyway). He swings so wild that I'm always thinking if he connects flush with one it could be over any second. At least they got the winner right this time. Â We're not even disagreeing on what deserved FOTN. If it was up to me Edgar and Maynard would have got the bonus money and I even thought Miocic/Beltran and Massenzio/Cantwell were actually better fights. But Dana (dunno if he decides but I'm guessing he has a say) obviously loves a brawl. Â We'll have to agree to disagree on Garcia though. I love watching him even if he is a terrible advert for MMA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Chris Lytle fucking cleaned up on FOTN bonuses throughout his career. Lytle deserved every bonus he got though. He was an excellent stand-up fighter as far as MMA goes, and he never took shots to the head just because he could. I'd say the same about Leben. Â We'll have to agree to disagree on Garcia though. I love watching him even if he is a terrible advert for MMA Sounds fair enough to me! Just like the different fighting styles, differing opinions make these threads interesting as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted October 11, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted October 11, 2011 haha, great argument. I actually agree that watching Leonard Garcia fight makes me cringe, but if Garcia's fighting, im tuning in regardless. I i guess it's hard to determine what takes fight of the night. I think Dana may look at the crowd reaction to these kinda of fights, the crowd loves a brawl and Dana just rewards guy who clearly leave it all in the cage...and you can knock Garcia all you want, but there's no denying he doesn't do that. Â My problem with Fight of the Night is that it's pretty much rewarding the most evenly made contest. The two worst fighters on the card can go in and have a brawl and take home an extra $75,000 yet a guy can go in and dominate a guy believed to be a much superior fighter and not get paid extra $$$. You know what im saying? Â It's like guys are rewarded for throwing caution to the wind and just slugging. But fuck it, it's fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
METAL ON METAL Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The two worst fighters on the card can go in and have a brawl and take home an extra $75,000 yet a guy can go in and dominate a guy believed to be a much superior fighter and not get paid extra $$$. You know what im saying? Â UFC 135 Jones absolutely dominated Rampage - yet that fight got FOTN. Â Plus thats surely what KO & Sub of the Night are for, to reward an impressive display from individual fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Rather than throwing around big bonuses maybe the UFC should start paying the fighters what they deserve? When you look at the money the company makes now they really should be paying their fighters a shitload more than they do. Â Outside the top guys the money can get quite embarrassing really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Milano Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Chris Lytle fucking cleaned up on FOTN bonuses throughout his career. Lytle deserved every bonus he got though. He was an excellent stand-up fighter as far as MMA goes, and he never took shots to the head just because he could. I'd say the same about Leben. Leben absolutely took shots to the head because he could; go check out his fight with Michael Bisping where he just drops his hands and lets Bisping punch him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiffy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 FOTN's all about encouraging and rewarding fights that are exciting to the casual viewer though. Sure the main event was technically more exciting but I enjoyed the wild brawl way more. And when they go onto fox things like that are what will bring in more people to watch it, cos it's mental and fast paced and could go either way any time. For me it was definately fotn because I enoyed it the most, with edgar maynard a close second. And to all the people I was watching it with it was fight of the night same way. Now you could (rightly) say that the main event was technically much better, and it was. But the people who'd place that above the garcia pham fight already love mma, so they're already where you need them. Things like the garcia fight will bring people into the sport more, and that's worth 75k of dana's money every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bus Surfer Posted October 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted October 12, 2011 It's been said many times but FOTN shouldn't awarding a particular style or technique, it's to award the most entertaining fight. I had no problems with Phan/Garcia getting it and wouldn't have said owt if Edgar/Maynard ard got it instead. Both totally different fights but both entertaining none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted October 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted October 12, 2011 to be fair, it's often been stated that there are other bonuses handed out at each show, they just aint documented...and you never hear anyone moan about the money they get in the UFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift89 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 to be fair, it's often been stated that there are other bonuses handed out at each show, they just aint documented...and you never hear anyone moan about the money they get in the UFC. Â Agree I hate when people moan about what fighters get paid. It's common knowledge that the amounts released to the public is not all they get paid. You only have to look at the reported amount which Jon Jones got paid for his last fight and the car he just got to know that is only a small percentage of the money which he is earning. Â Also when Bisping got punished over the spitting incident Dana said that he didn't get his 'bonus' which has been reported to be a huge amount of money. All fighters get more than what is reported, I'm not sure why they don't report the true figures though, there must be a reason behind this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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