Is the casual fan gone from wrestling?

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I was really The F4W Board and Dave Meltzer posted this bit of information and opinion regarding the MITB show drawing 185,000 buys after a red hot series of angles:

Even though this show would have been lucky to do 95,000 domestic without the angle, it was sad because it was proof positive how badly they've damaged the casual fan audience when it comes to angles and buying PPV shows.

 

WWE used to be able to fluctuate between 300,000 and 700,000 for non-Mania, SS or Rumble shows, which is a wide gap, if they had the right guys and right programs in place. Now they are locked into very predictable and very steadily declining numbers, and even when they come up with what seems to be an excellent angle, the only people who care are the ones who were buying in the first place.

 

Dont want to come across as a negative prick, because I do enjoy Raw, but nothing seems to ever last in wrestling anymore. There's many angles that get off the ground and then get left behind in the dirt. Like the Orton/McMahon angle that had everyone pissing themselves with anticipation at what was to come. Then the Nexus angle, which so compelling the first few weeks. I remember saying what Meltzer said on here a few weeks ago. There was a time, even during the down period that fans would buy "just in case". Granted they've lost some big stars in recent years as well. And the only thing I see as a glaring fault with the change in its target audience is the lack of gimmick matches on PPV. Or at least the lack of ones where you expect someone to either bleed or a full on garbage type thing which was a big fixture in WWE for years.

 

What do you lot think. I feel I'm trying to say something without actually saying it, but I hope I got my question across

[Tommy Atkins]

I think PPVs are too expensive nowadays for the casual fan to consider buying.

[fye]

I think the TV needs to get less predictable. I am not going to turn this into Attitude era rocks but what they often did was compete for titles on TV. There was always something on the line, and plenty of challengers in each division meaning plenty of switches onTV. Now hardly anything is on the line, usually even on PPVs the belts are often missing from the card and the main belts seem to be exclusive to PPV. That means a 3 month reign probably only involves one successful defence.

[Swift89]

I think PPVs are too expensive nowadays for the casual fan to consider buying.

 

There is also too many of them.

[The Total Package]

Well you and Butch mentioned about the ratings (RAW's) not being so great because of football (nfl), last weeks RAW got a 2.9 as I said before, its crazy to think that during one of their best angles that they would get under a 3, and its really hard to see them ever getting ratings like 8.0's again.

 

The ratings were actually dropping big time around 2003, so you could say thats when the casual fans started to leave.

 

I also dont blame americans watching football(nfl) over wrestling, if RAW or any wrestling show came on the same time as footy here or in MOTD time slot, then theirs no way Im watching wrestling over football, not a chance, not a knock on the product, its just what i enjoy more, it seems more americans are going towards NFL.

 

I agree that WWE start things interesting and then they just fizzle out, which is why I just dont ever see another boom in wrestling, I mean fuck me, what else could you do that is better than Nexus or Summer Of Punk 2, yeah I know turn Cena heel, and then what? same problem it would just fizzle out imo.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Well you and Butch mentioned about the ratings (RAW's) not being so great because of football (nfl), last weeks RAW got a 2.9 as I said before, its crazy to think that during one of their best angles that they would get under a 3, and its really hard to see them ever getting ratings like 8.0's again

 

I'm fairly certain what was an 8.0 then, wouldn't be an 8.0 now because of change in the way they measure the ratings. Or something.

[the_original]

in general, angles are too predictable.

 

Over the last few years, hot things aren't capitalised on, and when they are the moment has gone.

 

Tag belts look like giant 2p's, and they seem to give them to whatever goons are paired together and don't look like a pair of lemons when they work.

 

It seems like I've been watching matches involving combinations of Kingston/Ziggler/Morrison/Truth forever.

 

I'm not paying

[SiMania]

It's not just one section of the fans that has stopped buying PPVs. It's the overall fanbase that's reduced. Previous Hardcore fans are switching off, growing out of it or are finding alternative means such as torrents or streams to watch the PPV.

[Smeg_&_The_Heads]

I think if torrents or steams were as available and easy to access back in the Attitude Era as they are today the buy rates wouldn't of been much more than they are today.

[LCJ]

I think if torrents or steams were as available and easy to access back in the Attitude Era as they are today the buy rates wouldn't of been much more than they are today.

 

Well said. I think illegal downloads are harming the PPV industry (especially for wrestling anyway).

[Magnum]

I think if torrents or steams were as available and easy to access back in the Attitude Era as they are today the buy rates wouldn't of been much more than they are today.

 

One counterpoint to this is that wrestling in the Attitude era seemed to be a lot more set up for communal viewing - I'm thinking of the RAW frat parties that they sometimes used to show students having and the rows of 20+ lads with a sentence spelled out on signs or their chests. As such, it would have likely been a lot more friendly to the PPV market, with people getting their mates round for a PPV, than the more solitary experience of downloading and/or trying to find a decent stream.

 

PPV numbers aside, it's also clear that wrestling was more popular with 'casuals' back then just from its sheer visibility in popular culture. You don't see anything like the number of wrestling t-shirts in public or tie-ins/guest appearances in the mainstream media today as you did 10-12 years ago.

[ColinBollocks]

I agree. WWE has done its best to harm the trust between the consumer and the product for nearly ten years now. It's been one false hope after another, one really bad or rushed story too many.

 

I remember reading on here a few month back people stating that PPV is a dead model and that they were amazed wrestling still did PPV, considering. I think that's a nonsense really, if people are invested enough into the product and care about outcomes then they'll buy it. Sadly, when WCW folded WWE stopped listening to the fans because they could and went with champions they wanted, rather than who the fans wanted. They had Triple H hog Raw for AGES, without getting anybody properly over for years, the fans responded by turning off and not buying things. I know people shit on him, but WWE had RVD ready as their next guy without even having to do a thing (the fans loved the guy), but they spent his first two years in the company making sure he was only successful at a certain level, so the fans gave up by the time he did win the title.

 

Also the John Cena element really does hurt them. Meltzer said that no matter what WWE do, Cena will never be accepted by the casual male audience they want. I like Cena myself but it's clear that the casuals don't want Cena. He's great with the kids and shifts merch because of that but the 'money' market don't want to watch him. Talking to a couple of 'casual' mates, they fucking hate Cena. They think Cena is a big girls blouse and think he's one of the big reasons wrestling got shite. CM Punk, though, has them watching Raw again.

I know people go overboard with "CM Punk is the next Austin" because he's yet to turn a number (other than selling merch) but if they don't shit the bed and give Punk a proper build, I can see him being the 'next guy'. I honestly think one of the key ways dealing with Cena is to finally turn him. Build up Punk as your next top face and then have Cena turn. Not only does it freshen things up but it means Cena can change up his kidz gimmick and who knows, maybe the blokes who hate Cena might get back into him and the product.

 

Haha, fuck knows how I ended up on Cena turning. Fucking smark!

 

Wrestling is good just now and has been very watchable for months. It's such a complex thing this.

[eugenespeed]

If you ever read the likes of 411 (which I do if I'm ever in need of a laugh), according to their comments sections, WWE is shit hot and can't do anything wrong and thumping TNA into the ground, which is always crap.

 

Even on articles when TNA isn't even mentioned.

 

Such as "Rihanna wearing a bikini, hot pics"

[PowerButchi]

maybe the blokes who hate Cena might get back into him and the product.

 

That's my problem with the obsession with turning John Cena. I think it was DA MELTZ who pointed out that the "Turn Cena" obsessives have now created a situation where it'd be pointless to turn Cena, because while the kids would boo him the grown ups would start cheering him because it's want they wanted for ages and all that kind of jazz.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I think if torrents or steams were as available and easy to access back in the Attitude Era as they are today the buy rates wouldn't of been much more than they are today.

UFC's buyrates are consistantly high. And wrestling was HUGE in 1999/2000. Its proven that if people want to watch something badly, they are willing o pay for it.