Is the casual fan gone from wrestling?

[Vito]

I don't believe that the company have done nearly enough to create new stars, everyone rightly criticised WCW for relying on the same old faces but the WWE's main event scene is stagnant to the point where Cena's literally the only big star they have, Cena's never going to be a Rock or an Austin but he's the only thing they've got.

 

If you look back at the most recent big failed pushes a pattern begins to emerge:

 

Miz was never allowed to beat anyone important decisively, beat Cena at WM then jobbed to a rookie.

Christian never beat anyone important decisively and would be fed to Orton after looking like the biggest pussy in the world.

Barrett got some big wins but was eventually fed to Cena.

 

Orton scraped through by the skin of his teeth and has since become arguably the companies number two babyface, but it was a rocky road for him and it could easily have gone the other way after the intolerable shit he had to work with.

[Dirty Eddie]

I don't think that the casual fans have disappeared at all, in fact the casual fans have now become the majority. Diehard fans who've been watching wrestling religiously since the nineties, eighties or even seventies are the minority now, the young kids in the audience at Raw every week decked out in John Cena merchandise are the new fickle casuals who'd probably stop watching if Cena decided to take some time off. Years ago Vince made a decision to deliberately alienate and drive away the lifelong loyal wrestling fans and catered his product towards the casual audience with crappy unrelatable characters and the kind of awful storylines that even Hollyoaks would reject, the reason the companies PPV numbers are dwindling is because the vast majority of people who'd watch the shows and buy the PPV's religiously aren't watching anymore.

 

Yeah, I'd pretty much agree with that.

 

I have friends who were absolute hardcore fans but have completely turned off from the current product. These are not people who simply grew out of it (that would have happened way earlier), these are people that enjoyed the product (throughout many ups and down) for years, but turned off since a few years after the WCW buyout/death.

 

They dumbed down an already pretty dumb product to the point of catering towards children. Not a "family friendly product", which would be one thing, but aimed directly at children, in a manner that alienated a lot of people over 12. Whether the or WWE like it of not, Cena is the face of that change, and so takes a lot of flack from the remaining hardcore fans (what is left of them).

 

There are times when it seemed like WWE was intentionally trying to make the hardcore fans tune out. They seem to enjoy taking something or someone that the hardcore fans enjoy and shitting on it; they bring Jim Ross back, and mock him every other week on TV. They sign up Low Ki, allow him (just about) to get over on TV, then drop him like a bad habit. They replace Sabu with Bob Holly in a PPV main event ECW match. A lot of this type of shit just seems like people in power amusing themselves at the expense of those silly "smart fans". Yeah, that's right, the same people that line up to meet the wrestlers, who travel across the country for wrestlemania, and the only people who defend Pro Wrestling as being anything other than "silly, childish shit for spastics and queers".

[crazyshady]

Why are you all even bothering about all this? Your reap what you sow in life and sooner or later this will backfire bigtime on Vince McMahon. Lets see how much longer Cena can do house shows/TVs/PPVs all without getting hurt and without needing time off. Rey Mysterio is gone thank god although knowing my luck he will pop back up on TV sooner or later. He is a living breathing insult to people's intelligence and so is 95% of the WWE roster. Any casual fan that tunes in now for the big moments or storyline knows it's bullshit. You can't even pretend it's real to enjoy it, it's like Vince Russo said years ago in his shoot interview, they're showing these cartoon characters and what they are doing is so blatantly fake and they try and sell it to you as if it's real. They don't even do it tongue in cheek. They refused to build stars for years and even now when they have someone who could be a big star given the right matches with the right people and give them the right angles to do on TV to get them over they still play those mind games, the wrestlers are still worried about their spots, still sucking up to the writers, it's just so childish. You would think everyone on the roster would at least try and work together to help get everyone over and all work together and try and make the shows better but they just can't help playing those childish games. WWE is no longer about fans going to see great matches and see their favourite characters do things you just wouldn't see on any other TV show, it's basically became a night out. The fans get up for the promos or the entrances, the kids cheer throughout the night, it's basically a family night out, it has replaced going to the cinema. We're going to see the WWE tonight! Not we're going to see WWE and i can't wait to see what the Miz is gonna do or who's gonna win that number 1 contendership match. It's pretty much just a family night out. Listen to some cool entrance music, take some pics, maybe buy a t shirt and be home for half 11.

 

 

But don't any of you feel bad for the wrestling business. It needs to hit rock bottom before it can be built up. John Cena has been in the main event scene since 2005 and we're heading into a 7th year of John Cena at the top. We should have had 3 or 4 John Cenas by now but of course these wrestlers, they just can't stop playing backstage politics and the sad thing about it is very few people care now. So what if John Cena turns heel. So what if they start blading again or using chairshots to the head/hand. So what? Who's gonna see it? I imagine the next time someone does blade it will be a big moment. Over 3 years into the PG era now and there has been no heavy bleeding but what is the point? All these wrestlers wearing trunks. They got their real names and their short haircuts. Just like the average man walking the street, am i right in thinking WWE wants me to believe wrestling is a real sport? Is that why those wrestlers are dressed like athletes and use real names? Are you trying to sell me pro wrestling as legitimate? Well that is fine if you want but don't further insult my intelligence by showing me another idiot on TV, another fool by the name of Kofi Kingston, another actor like Booker T, one of those faces you could just slap around all day and never get tired of it. Kofi really does expose wrestling as fake, all you need to do is touch him and he flys across the ring or falls to his knees,oooooh you hit me so hard i lost my balance!!!!!!!! That's so realistic! But in real life a swift kick to the balls and he would be on both knees begging for forigiveness, begging for me not to take off my belt and do to him what his mother shoulda done to him the minute he decided to become a wrestler. I don't mind disciplining him.

 

Another thing that pisses me off is that stupid lighting they shine on the crowd. Does it look good for them? Big red lights on the audience, well i suppose it covers up the top half of the arenas which are usually empty. Commercials during matches, everyone knows the minute someone gets thrown to the outside and the opponent stays in the ring we are going to a commercial break! But don't go anywhere now! Michael Cole rambling away constantly on Raw and Booker T on Smackdown. Anyone that isn't a diehard fan is gonna switch off immediately. People do not talk like that in real world, it's not natural and in the case of Michael Cole he sounds like he is trying too hard and it comes across as phony. Again it all adds together to completely alienate the audience. There is just no way anyone can buy into it what is happening on screen and then we take a look at what is on screen and why it is happening. What happened to storylines? Why is wrestler A fighting wrestler B? Again we're back to the old fashioned way of wrasslin'. Good guy vs bad guy! Even at the investors meeting Vince McMahon got told straight to his face by one of the investers, your wrestling is from the 1970's, it's campy and out dated. But of course like i said earlier they don't have the sense of humour to at least have fun with it. By all means have Cole on commentary, have Kofi in the ring and make it completely obvious to your audience that it's all just one big fake entertainment show, oh look at Kofi dancing away and clapping his hands together oh why don't show a close up of a big father mother and son combo in the crowd chowing down on some chocolate bars and swigging some fizzy soft drinks ohhhh yeah this is real good, oh the bad guys gonna get what's coming to him! Yayyyy! The good guy wins oh look at him dancing to the reggae music oh this is a great night out! This is better than sitting at home watching TV oh no here we go, here comes another bad guy. BOOOOOOOO! Come on son put your chocolate down and give him the thumbs down, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you just wait till the good guy comes out next! Oh looks like the good guy is a 4 foot midget in a mask. Oh well.

 

I have a lot of gripes right now but i'm not saying anymore. But your job is to be the fan. Just let the whole business go down the toilet and then it can piece itself together again. It's all self inflicted, they knew what they were doing. Everything you see on WWE is deliberate. Every match, every finish, the content of every promo. Every last thing is deliberately planned out to be that way so if someone is being given shit to work with or is being buried, it is deliberate. Then again if i was working in WWE i'd phone it in every week too, make as much money as i could and get the hell out of there. The UFC is dominating now, there is nothing new to be done in wrestling, there is no more dream matches left, there is no more big money to be made.

[Richie Freebird]

Why are you all even bothering about all this? Your reap what you sow in life and sooner or later this will backfire bigtime on Vince McMahon. Lets see how much longer Cena can do house shows/TVs/PPVs all without getting hurt and without needing time off. Rey Mysterio is gone thank god although knowing my luck he will pop back up on TV sooner or later. He is a living breathing insult to people's intelligence and so is 95% of the WWE roster. Any casual fan that tunes in now for the big moments or storyline knows it's bullshit. You can't even pretend it's real to enjoy it, it's like Vince Russo said years ago in his shoot interview, they're showing these cartoon characters and what they are doing is so blatantly fake and they try and sell it to you as if it's real. They don't even do it tongue in cheek. They refused to build stars for years and even now when they have someone who could be a big star given the right matches with the right people and give them the right angles to do on TV to get them over they still play those mind games, the wrestlers are still worried about their spots, still sucking up to the writers, it's just so childish. You would think everyone on the roster would at least try and work together to help get everyone over and all work together and try and make the shows better but they just can't help playing those childish games. WWE is no longer about fans going to see great matches and see their favourite characters do things you just wouldn't see on any other TV show, it's basically became a night out. The fans get up for the promos or the entrances, the kids cheer throughout the night, it's basically a family night out, it has replaced going to the cinema. We're going to see the WWE tonight! Not we're going to see WWE and i can't wait to see what the Miz is gonna do or who's gonna win that number 1 contendership match. It's pretty much just a family night out. Listen to some cool entrance music, take some pics, maybe buy a t shirt and be home for half 11.

 

 

But don't any of you feel bad for the wrestling business. It needs to hit rock bottom before it can be built up. John Cena has been in the main event scene since 2005 and we're heading into a 7th year of John Cena at the top. We should have had 3 or 4 John Cenas by now but of course these wrestlers, they just can't stop playing backstage politics and the sad thing about it is very few people care now. So what if John Cena turns heel. So what if they start blading again or using chairshots to the head/hand. So what? Who's gonna see it? I imagine the next time someone does blade it will be a big moment. Over 3 years into the PG era now and there has been no heavy bleeding but what is the point? All these wrestlers wearing trunks. They got their real names and their short haircuts. Just like the average man walking the street, am i right in thinking WWE wants me to believe wrestling is a real sport? Is that why those wrestlers are dressed like athletes and use real names? Are you trying to sell me pro wrestling as legitimate? Well that is fine if you want but don't further insult my intelligence by showing me another idiot on TV, another fool by the name of Kofi Kingston, another actor like Booker T, one of those faces you could just slap around all day and never get tired of it. Kofi really does expose wrestling as fake, all you need to do is touch him and he flys across the ring or falls to his knees,oooooh you hit me so hard i lost my balance!!!!!!!! That's so realistic! But in real life a swift kick to the balls and he would be on both knees begging for forigiveness, begging for me not to take off my belt and do to him what his mother shoulda done to him the minute he decided to become a wrestler. I don't mind disciplining him.

 

Another thing that pisses me off is that stupid lighting they shine on the crowd. Does it look good for them? Big red lights on the audience, well i suppose it covers up the top half of the arenas which are usually empty. Commercials during matches, everyone knows the minute someone gets thrown to the outside and the opponent stays in the ring we are going to a commercial break! But don't go anywhere now! Michael Cole rambling away constantly on Raw and Booker T on Smackdown. Anyone that isn't a diehard fan is gonna switch off immediately. People do not talk like that in real world, it's not natural and in the case of Michael Cole he sounds like he is trying too hard and it comes across as phony. Again it all adds together to completely alienate the audience. There is just no way anyone can buy into it what is happening on screen and then we take a look at what is on screen and why it is happening. What happened to storylines? Why is wrestler A fighting wrestler B? Again we're back to the old fashioned way of wrasslin'. Good guy vs bad guy! Even at the investors meeting Vince McMahon got told straight to his face by one of the investers, your wrestling is from the 1970's, it's campy and out dated. But of course like i said earlier they don't have the sense of humour to at least have fun with it. By all means have Cole on commentary, have Kofi in the ring and make it completely obvious to your audience that it's all just one big fake entertainment show, oh look at Kofi dancing away and clapping his hands together oh why don't show a close up of a big father mother and son combo in the crowd chowing down on some chocolate bars and swigging some fizzy soft drinks ohhhh yeah this is real good, oh the bad guys gonna get what's coming to him! Yayyyy! The good guy wins oh look at him dancing to the reggae music oh this is a great night out! This is better than sitting at home watching TV oh no here we go, here comes another bad guy. BOOOOOOOO! Come on son put your chocolate down and give him the thumbs down, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you just wait till the good guy comes out next! Oh looks like the good guy is a 4 foot midget in a mask. Oh well.

 

I have a lot of gripes right now but i'm not saying anymore. But your job is to be the fan. Just let the whole business go down the toilet and then it can piece itself together again. It's all self inflicted, they knew what they were doing. Everything you see on WWE is deliberate. Every match, every finish, the content of every promo. Every last thing is deliberately planned out to be that way so if someone is being given shit to work with or is being buried, it is deliberate. Then again if i was working in WWE i'd phone it in every week too, make as much money as i could and get the hell out of there. The UFC is dominating now, there is nothing new to be done in wrestling, there is no more dream matches left, there is no more big money to be made.

 

 

Just do what I do and don

[crazyshady]

Yeah, I'd pretty much agree with that.

 

I have friends who were absolute hardcore fans but have completely turned off from the current product. These are not people who simply grew out of it (that would have happened way earlier), these are people that enjoyed the product (throughout many ups and down) for years, but turned off since a few years after the WCW buyout/death.

 

They dumbed down an already pretty dumb product to the point of catering towards children. Not a "family friendly product", which would be one thing, but aimed directly at children, in a manner that alienated a lot of people over 12. Whether the or WWE like it of not, Cena is the face of that change, and so takes a lot of flack from the remaining hardcore fans (what is left of them).

 

There are times when it seemed like WWE was intentionally trying to make the hardcore fans tune out. They seem to enjoy taking something or someone that the hardcore fans enjoy and shitting on it; they bring Jim Ross back, and mock him every other week on TV. They sign up Low Ki, allow him (just about) to get over on TV, then drop him like a bad habit. They replace Sabu with Bob Holly in a PPV main event ECW match. A lot of this type of shit just seems like people in power amusing themselves at the expense of those silly "smart fans". Yeah, that's right, the same people that line up to meet the wrestlers, who travel across the country for wrestlemania, and the only people who defend Pro Wrestling as being anything other than "silly, childish shit for spastics and queers".

 

 

Of course they are. Like i said in my post they still play these games with people. They still believe it's real! They still believe people give a damn about their shitty booking and their shitty looking HD entranceway and what crap they book their main stars into doing each week. Still backstage politics. Still wrestlers holding each other down, refusing to put others over whereas if they all had a braincell between them they could all work together into making wrestling decent again. Get all the wrestlers in the back on the same page and the people in management on the same page and all work together, all have input into the shows and everyone try and make each show the best it can be even if it means putting other people over and making yourself look bad.

 

But they can't do it. They just can't snap out of it. Well that's fine by me. I don't think Vince will be here in 20 years and in 20 years Triple H wont be up to much either. Lets see how long John Cena lasts heading into 2012 injury free. Lets see how long his body holds up.

[crazyshady]

Just do what I do and don

[Vito]

The only thing the WWE does these days that I really enjoy is the Legends Of Wrestling episodes on their on-demand service, because they involve reminiscing about the days when wrestling was actually good.

[ThePhenom]

I wouldn't quote that whole post from you CrazyShady, out of fear for getting told off and insulted, but I just want to say how brilliant it was. It's depressing to read, but it is all so true.

[Loki]

I think you're both right in a way.

 

Kids become WWE fans for a short number of years, as a fad. They buy the Cena stuff, but as soon as they get old enough to grow out of him, the product loses its interest. Wrestling's lost it's devoted adult fans, the guys who go to every show in their area and watch every PPV. Ian's right, we're not hardcore fans - we download, we dip in and out, we critique and pull it apart.

 

In the biggest boom periods for wrestling, the audiences were full of college kids, drinking and spending cash. Not now.

[Kiffy]

But don't any of you feel bad for the wrestling business. It needs to hit rock bottom before it can be built up.

 

 

I have a lot of gripes right now but i'm not saying anymore. But your job is to be the fan. Just let the whole business go down the toilet and then it can piece itself together again.

 

This seems to assume it will at some point go back to the levels it was it, either with the Monday night wars or even further back to the territory and WOS days.

I'm not sure it'll ever happen though, wrestling's got no god given write to continue to exist as a major form of entertainment. It got to where it was on the back of being presented as real for decades, now UFC's real and wrestling's fake.

WWE's not going anywhere soon, it's still a massive money making phenomenon, but 20/30 years from now? It's certainly on a downward trend, UFC's massively on the rise. Wrestling may be kinda done, long term.

[The Total Package]

Wrestling wont be done or die, it will just become increasingly less popular, theirs always a market for it, just a really small one (outisde the WWE brand).

 

Its almost like arcades, they used to be a massive form of entertainment for kids/teens, from space invaders/pacman - street fighter 2, MK days, anyone from those eras knows what I mean, compared to now, arcades are still around today(few), but are almost completely irelavant to a modern day gamer, and the social aspects of meeting your mates or even some cases making friends while at the arcade are also gone too.

 

WWE in the future, I dont know, not saying it will happen, but in the next 10 years I can see SD! getting canned, it was a show started to capitalize on the late 90s boom after all, which obviously died along time ago, SD! has been on its dying legs for awhile now imo.

 

RAW might actually lose its Monday time slot, because it doesnt draw enough, I think that happened to japanese wrestling shows when they became less popular, not sure but I remember reading that some where, because wrestling used to be very big in japan till Pride came along, same thing happening in the states now with UFC.

 

TV it self is changing, people are much more on demand stuff, meltzer was saying that networks are now locking down big deals for sports, because its the only form of entertainment that people want to watch as it happens, anything else gets recorded to watch later, so people just skip over the ads, which is not what they want you doing.

 

You would think this would work in WWE's favour, but it dont, how many times have you recorded RAW or SD! or just thought I cant be assed to stay up and watch that, and then watch it on utube, record it or even DL it.

 

For americans its the case of NFL live, DVR RAW for later or any of the above.

 

As much as I dislike Cena, he really is the only thing keeping WWE above a 3.0 at the minute, well for years even, take him out of the show and WWE really would be fucked, I dont even think Orton could do what Cena does, and after Orton their aint nobody close to Cena at all.

 

I dont think they could ever get back that old fanbase, alot of people stopped following wrestling in 2001 when WCW went away, why would they comeback now in 2011?......to see some guy do insider remarks? I dont think so, thats not a diss to punk, he has been great in his role, its just a sad fact people just dont care about wrestling on that level anymore.

[Kiffy]

Wrestling wont be done or die, it will just become increasingly less popular, theirs always a market for it, just a really small one (outisde the WWE brand).

 

Why?

[Richie Freebird]

Good, thought provoking post Total Package. I liked the analogy with arcades, (I

[The Gaffer]

I'm genuinly worried about life after Cena considering I can't see anyone who has a hope of taking his dollar crown. I'm just as worried about the alternative : life with Cena for another million years. Heel Cena's become this generic cure all creative cliche on wrestling forums now and it's probably the most exciting thing the product could go through but you need a guy who can take his spot. The kids wont want to boo him and the old fans will just start cheering him again. It should never, ever happen until somebody becomes just as popular with the entire fanbase and just as big a shiller of merchandise. Right now The Miz is the most likely contender. CM Punk is fantastic but I don't see him sending kids giddy even if he starts saving Hornswoggle from inferno matches. Turn him heel and you have a bigger box office disaster than turning Austin heel in 2001. Sure it was a great twist and made for awesome TV [and the menacing, paranoid Austin was fantastic in his role] but it fucked up house show business, damaged merchandise sales and was the opening salvo for the industries downward spiral on WWE television.

 

And therein lies the danger with the product going in to the future. I hope but doubt The Miz can become as big a face as Cena. I don't think he will. CM Punk will simply be the guy that's the babyface with the people who hate the babyface. The Rock will be the focal point of the product after November this year. Him, Taker and Triple H sold WrestleMania. Who is going to be selling the shows and shifting the merchandise in the future? In 2002 we had Kurt, Brock, Batista and Orton all looking like future long term stars with Jericho, Undertaker, Triple H and the rest of the Attitude roster left to put them over. These days things look comparatively worse.

 

In 2000 you were given time on television because you were super over. These days you need the television to remind the fans of who you are. Too Cool were as close as Raw got ten years ago to having jobbers on it and they got bigger pops than most of anything on todays shows. The Miz and Punk are gold. Orton, Christian, Triple H, Jericho etc will be on hand to put them over. Cena will hang in the middle still dominating as the dynasty and modern era Hogan.

 

Beside that who have we got going on? Does anyone honestly care about Del Rio, A-Ri, Dolph Ziggler & Kofi Kingston? I find each and every one of them tragically boring. WWE need a new cast and fast. The same thing happened in 1997. Although the business didn't reflect it yet the TV was starting to get hot and the PPV was starting to get more interesting at the top. But the midcard was still dominated by hacks and bores. This was the Autum & Winter of that year. By summer in 1998 the business done a complete 180, the roster was shuffled, everyone had a character and everyone mattered.

 

The biker dudes, the Spanish dudes, LOD, The Godwins, The Patriot and other garbage talent all of a sudden vanished. Edge, Christian, Gangrel, Shamrock, Bossman, Blackman, Venis all came from nowhere. It didn't seem to take effort. Just change a few peoples characters around and give some new prospects some cool costumes and a gimmick that whilst highly theatrical was still very authentic and not childish. I never questioned why Gangrel led his alternative lifestyle. He just did and he liked to express it by having a wrestle every Monday night.

 

It doesn't take much to pull off and that's what WWE need to do between now and WrestleMania. Build. The TV will take care of itself - we have a lot to look foward to - but the night after WrestleMania WWE will need to come bursting out of the gate with a fresh, revamped roster that people actually care about. End the brand split apart from touring purposes and turn a 50% good Raw and 50% good Smackdown into 100% watchable entertainment stacked from top to bottom. Have King turn heel if he has the balls to, let JR be JR, and put Kevin Nash in between them. Triple H is the super GM god of the wrestling world. Michael Cole is the hottest manager in the business and leads a heel faction family, Miz is teaming with The Rock at Backlash With A Silly Name and becoming a made man ... or something like that, all the Nexus leftover trash have gimmicks etc.

 

That's a tired ramble that probably has a few logical hangups and borders on the fan fantasy but yeah. Those are my general thoughts.

[The Total Package]

Why?

 

Why? Because wrestling has been around since forever, it didnt start in 1984 with a leg drop, just because its not huge mainstream wise anymore does not mean it will die as a form of entertainment, boxing is in much worser state imo than wrestling, yet its still going, Im not saying WWE wont be out of business in 30 years, they could be, but the sport of wrestling, It will still be there, even if its on a tiny scale.

 

The fact you have ROH and countless other things should tell you this, as I said the market is not huge, but its there. Wrestling might not even get shown on TV anymore in 30years, but I bet live shows of some kind will still be going.

 

I can understand the death of WWE would perhaps translate to many people/fans the death of wrestling, but its only one part, a huge part yes, I felt that way when WCW died, I knew I would never get that product again, as I said Im not really ever expecting something on the level of WWE or WCW again.

 

Good, thought provoking post Total Package. I liked the analogy with arcades, (I