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big mickey

RIOT!

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I'm glad Bobbins has come here to talk some sense, started to think I was on my own there. And he's right in saying that I do have direct experience of working with inner city youth who were involved in persistent criminality whilst I was a CSO. And in doing so, by the way, I bet I was far more involved in community relations than anyone on here giving their two cents on these 'evil youths'. Part of the reason I left that job is because I didn't want to be a part of the recurring cycle of the criminal justice system which often has no affect whatsoever on preventing re-offending. They need education and access to better opportunities and hope of a better life. Not a constant cycle of crime and prison.

 

Everybody has access to education and opportunities in life, its whether we make the right choices in order to progress our lives. Nobody is dragged into crime and violence because it surrounds them, you can make a choice not to be involved in that. The reaction of some to blame Police, Ministers and how these people have no choice but to be like this really does frighten me, people cant be babysat through their lives and constantly guided along the right path, we all have our own choices in life, its not everyone elses fault and problem when people consistently make the wrong choices like to carry a gun, a knife or to deal drugs and mug people or to go along and burn shops and homes down for no reason whatsoever.

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Also, just for your attention:

 

If the Police genuinely believe there is a threat of harm to the public and/or themselves from a suspect then they must take action if the suspect is not willing to co-operate or if they believe he's ready to use the firearm.

 

It doesn't matter who fired first or who didn't. Public safety and their own safety is of paramount.

 

But I am keen to see what the findings are from the IPCC

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Everybody has access to education and opportunities in life, its whether we make the right choices in order to progress our lives. Nobody is dragged into crime and violence because it surrounds them, you can make a choice not to be involved in that. The reaction of some to blame Police, Ministers and how these people have no choice but to be like this really does frighten me, people cant be babysat through their lives and constantly guided along the right path, we all have our own choices in life, its not everyone elses fault and problem when people consistently make the wrong choices like to carry a gun, a knife or to deal drugs and mug people or to go along and burn shops and homes down for no reason whatsoever.

 

So you wouldn't agree that if you were brought up in an area rife with crime and poverty, with shit schools and no jobs, you wouldn't be slightly more likely to be involved in crime? I don't know any reasonable person could not see this. And 'no reason whatsoever', there's always reasons why people do things. I know you know this deep down.

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If the Police genuinely believe there is a threat of harm to the public and/or themselves from a suspect then they must take action if the suspect is not willing to co-operate or if they believe he's ready to use the firearm.

 

It doesn't matter who fired first or who didn't. Public safety and their own safety is of paramount.

 

But I am keen to see what the findings are from the IPCC

 

Because of course the Police have never wrongly shot someone dead have they?

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I like to tell myself that the rioting in Enfield Town is merely a re-enactment of the riot scene in Police Academy, in memory of good old Hightower. :(

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So you wouldn't agree that if you were brought up in an area rife with crime and poverty, with shit schools and no jobs, you wouldn't be slightly more likely to be involved in crime? I don't know any reasonable person could not see this. And 'no reason whatsoever', there's always reasons why people do things. I know you know this deep down.

 

Well that is a true statement yes, I wont deny that, but that isnt justification for being involved in it. There is never an excuse for being involved in crime. Going by Bobbins' idea that everyone at birth is the same what is stopping somebody born in Tottenham from being as successful as somebody born in Bristol? Education is a choice, your parents educating you the difference between right and wrong is a choice of theirs and knowing thats its probably a shit idea to be involved in gangs whatsoever and carry weapons is probably a bad choice.

 

No good reason whatsoever, everyone knows deep down that if the guy was shot by another gang member there would have been no rioting on the streets last night. and the guy lying dead would only be known by a few people he knocked about with.

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Because of course the Police have never wrongly shot someone dead have they?

 

(Sighs) I never said they did, I am just stating the reasoning for the Police firing first (if it is shown they did) and if the IPCC report shows that the killing was a cock up then they deserve the criticism they'll get.

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*stands and applauds Whiskey1's post*

 

They are like this because they are uneducated, badly brought up and generally moronic people, not because they are poor souls that were treated like scum once.

"Once"? I'm talking about a lifetime of being surrounded by this behaviour from family members, peers and neighbours. You think that has no effect? You think moral guidance is beamed down from God's mouth to a child's brain? You don't think being badly educated and badly brought up constitutes being treated like scum?

 

Bloody hell, have you ever left the house? Of course they can.

 

Last year a group of 11 year olds killed an innocent man in a street very close to mine just because he refused to go in the shop and get them alcohol. Are you really suggesting they did it because they 'didn't know better'? Scum is scum, age doesn't have to come into play.

I'm not saying they didn't know better, but violence is learned behaviour. If scum is scum, and it's entirely an individual choice to become scum, they why does that sort of thing never happen in rich areas or from middle-class kids? That's got to be a massive fucking coincidence that every single recorded incident of this nature has happened in poor, deprived areas.

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Your dismissal of people as simply 'scum' or 'shit', purely based on the fact that they come from poor families, in a deprived area, with poor education and no employment opportunities is frankly disgusting.

I don't think you read his post. His dismissal of them as shit and scum was based on something different than what you've said there, wasn't it? It was based on them living off crime and terrorising real people.

 

 

So you wouldn't agree that if you were brought up in an area rife with crime and poverty, with shit schools and no jobs, you wouldn't be slightly more likely to be involved in crime? I don't know any reasonable person could not see this.

It doesn't excuse anything, though. "I know he did all that robbing and drug dealing, but it's not his fault, he's just a poor boy from a poor family!" How exactly do you spare him his life from this monstrosity if you don't hold criminals accountable for their own actions?

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I like to tell myself that the rioting in Enfield Town is merely a re-enactment of the riot scene in Police Academy, in memory of good old Hightower. :(

 

 

:laugh:

 

We need some citizens on patrol, what's this guy upto?

 

50111_1029876811_5463823_n.jpg

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Bobbins and Whiskey1...

 

First and foremost don't you want to protect the innocent people in these poor areas? So often i hear arguments similar to your own and you totally ignore the millions of people who live in these poor areas, have that same poor education and limited opportunities although in a place like Tottenham i don't agree with that last part and have to put up with this crap.

 

You two have made these posts defending actions and you have defended them make no mistake, by making excuses for them your defending them and yet you forget that people who live in the same horrible place as these criminals have lost their homes, possesions and business'.

 

If you want to talk about how to stop this happening forever well thats a 20 year plan which quite frankly if i was still a resident i'd be horrified by. If however you want an immediate clean up followed by your ideas then maybe i'd agree more.

 

There will always be criminals and there will always be areas more deprived than others, that's life but that doesn't give anyone the excuse to show the utter disregard for lives that i have witnessed in Tottenham and Edmonton.

 

I don't pretend to have the answers i just know that after a long time living amongst it, i want more police there to protect people and i want these gangs dealt with by whatever means needed as long as it stops innocent people getting hurt.

 

Of course Tottenham like many other areas needs drastic investment of both money and time but first and foremost the streets needed to be cleaned up so law abiding people can walk them without fear. Whilst the gangs rule Tottenham will never improve.

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I don't think you read his post. His dismissal of them as shit and scum was based on something different than what you've said there, wasn't it? It was based on them living off crime and terrorising real people.

 

The fact that i have said i have lived in the very same area and have no qualifications numerous times in this thread has totally missed his moral crusade by. How can i judge people on where they're from or their education when i'm one of them?

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Bobbins and Whiskey1...

 

First and foremost don't you want to protect the innocent people in these poor areas? So often i hear arguments similar to your own and you totally ignore the millions of people who live in these poor areas, have that same poor education and limited opportunities although in a place like Tottenham i don't agree with that last part and have to put up with this crap.

 

You two have made these posts defending actions and you have defended them make no mistake, by making excuses for them your defending them and yet you forget that people who live in the same horrible place as these criminals have lost their homes, possesions and business'.

 

If you want to talk about how to stop this happening forever well thats a 20 year plan which quite frankly if i was still a resident i'd be horrified by. If however you want an immediate clean up followed by your ideas then maybe i'd agree more.

 

There will always be criminals and there will always be areas more deprived than others, that's life but that doesn't give anyone the excuse to show the utter disregard for lives that i have witnessed in Tottenham and Edmonton.

 

I don't pretend to have the answers i just know that after a long time living amongst it, i want more police there to protect people and i want these gangs dealt with by whatever means needed as long as it stops innocent people getting hurt.

 

Of course Tottenham like many other areas needs drastic investment of both money and time but first and foremost the streets needed to be cleaned up so law abiding people can walk them without fear. Whilst the gangs rule Tottenham will never improve.

 

You'll never solve the problems unless you tackle the causes. I don't want anyone getting hurt, but you can't protect anyone by simply ignoring others.

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Just watched the video on sky of the looting of a jb's store, why no one is being arrested I don't know, black and white people. I worry about going back for an extra "free"cup of tea of asda and not being caught.

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There is a massive gap between the have and the have nots in this country, it is one that keeps growing - and is one of the main reasons why we have this type of criminality. Your dismissal of people as simply 'scum' or 'shit', purely based on the fact that they come from poor families, in a deprived area, with poor education and no employment opportunities is frankly disgusting.

 

It wasn't based on the fact that they come from poor families, it's based on behaviour.

Edited by johnnyboy

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