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big mickey

RIOT!

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Were they born with zero respect for human life, was that innate from the womb or was it something they learned over time? You say they're just kids, starting out as young as 12, but already they're dismissed as inhuman scum? Can 12 year olds really be that evil and conniving? Aren't they just playing the game as they know it? And the solution is to flood the area with police with a mandate for violence? Surely you can see that's an oversimplification of the problems? The way the communities are run needs to be fundamentally changed. Throwing a bunch of police at a problem area never solved any societal problems.

 

Read that article i think it shows a lot of the issues.

 

I wouldn't flood the area with police to turn it into some no go zone but right now if you call the police in Tottenham you are lucky if they show up. Their so under manned and these people know they can get away with things. I don't know what it's like where you live but when i lived there i would have felt 10x safer if there were police around. I also never mentioned violence. The police are often powerless as they can arrest them but then release them after a day because of too much paper work, a lack of witness' and a backlog of cases. Your attitude is very commendable but your forgetting the law abiding people who live there in fear because of these scum. I believe at 12 to 17 they can be scared into going on the straight and narrow. Not through violence but by showing them their actions have consquences which at the moment they don't think they have.

 

 

Where to?

 

To prison, young offenders institutions, back to their home country, put them under house arrest, evict their parents. Wherever. Protect the innocent people their scaring the hell out of not the criminals.

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Yep, here in Slough and spreading nationwide it's all about bandana gangs at the moment, gangs formed by the colour of their bandanas just loitering intimidating the public, nicking gold chains off old Indian women, dealing drugs getting their siblings involved to deal in schools, nicking stuff to order etc

 

99% these kids will never be law abiding sadly and all this talk I been watching in the tv news citing lack jobs/recession being a primary cause is bollocks - these dickheads don't want to make the effort in working and have zero sense of community.

 

It will be impossible to reason with them or establish some sort of dialogue because that would mean they'd be asked to stop their bloody offending first of all.

 

How do you know they're kids?

How do you know they can't be bothered to get a job?

No community they're just in a gang though.

 

Some (and I mean quite a lot) have been turned away when applying for jobs and feel they've got in so much trouble nobody will give them a chance, which to a certain degree can be true.

 

To prison, young offenders institutions, back to their home country, put them under house arrest, evict their parents. Wherever. Protect the innocent people their scaring the hell out of not the criminals.

 

:rolleyes:

Edited by Psygnosis

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Were they born with zero respect for human life, was that innate from the womb or was it something they learned over time? You say they're just kids, starting out as young as 12, but already they're dismissed as inhuman scum? Can 12 year olds really be that evil and conniving?

 

Bloody hell, have you ever left the house? Of course they can.

 

Last year a group of 11 year olds killed an innocent man in a street very close to mine just because he refused to go in the shop and get them alcohol. Are you really suggesting they did it because they 'didn't know better'? Scum is scum, age doesn't have to come into play.

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How do you know they're kids?

How do you know they can't be bothered to get a job?

No community they're just in a gang though.

 

Some (and I mean quite a lot) have been turned away when applying for jobs and feel they've got in so much trouble nobody will give them a chance, which to a certain degree can be true.

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

Okay, I think that the bollocks about sending people "back to their own country" is disgusting, but its just as dumb to make allowances about getting turned away from jobs and being upset about having a record - I have plenty of family members and acquaintances who were in a FAR more fucked situation, away from the jobs that London offers, who clawed their way out. The difference is that they weren't trying to live some Netto Fabulous lifestyle.

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I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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I think London needs a mayor like Rudy Giuliani who is prepared to do whatever is necessary to sort London out.

 

That include sending the cops into homeless areas with badges covered and taped handled maglights, all the better for clouting the least fortunate people in society? Honestly... this city was fixing itself before Giuliani, economically the situation it was in was being recognized as unviable and ridiculous, and the forces of law and commerce were rectifying the situation.

 

I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

Game over, man.

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Oh ok i knew that comment would cause trouble.

 

Are you suggesting that we allow Jamacian yardie gangsters who illegally stay in this country should be allowed to stay? I got that opinion from one of our shops which was full of gangs mugging people, using it to deal drugs, robbing the shop and generally being scum. The police waited and waited and waited whilst gaining evidence. When they finally had success the first thing they did was deport the ring leader who was here illegally.

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How do you know they're kids?

How do you know they can't be bothered to get a job?

No community they're just in a gang though.

 

How do you know they're kids?

- I meant young teens 13-18 age group, I know due to the nature of my work.

 

How do you know they can't be bothered to get a job?

- Because they've told me to my face, they have rejected numerous Youth Offending Team and Council partnership programmes that are given to them in an effort to get them on the straight and narrow or they break them after a few days to go back chilling out with their mates because they 'can't be arsed' unless it's a job making games for Sony or getting an apprenticeship that pays

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I'm glad Bobbins has come here to talk some sense, started to think I was on my own there. And he's right in saying that I do have direct experience of working with inner city youth who were involved in persistent criminality whilst I was a CSO. And in doing so, by the way, I bet I was far more involved in community relations than anyone on here giving their two cents on these 'evil youths'. Part of the reason I left that job is because I didn't want to be a part of the recurring cycle of the criminal justice system which often has no affect whatsoever on preventing re-offending. They need education and access to better opportunities and hope of a better life. Not a constant cycle of crime and prison.

 

The thing is, and what some of you are too short-sighted to understand, is that in no way do I condone violence or harm to people and property. What I am trying to get at is that there are complex reasons as to why people act like this. If you're so ignorant to think 'they're just scum', 'shit breeds shit' (what an awful saying though, to refer to your fellow human as shit.) then there's probably not much I can say to change your minds. But your alienation of the people who cause this crime will do nothing to prevent in happening again as it is their social exclusion that causes it in the first place.

 

Also spurs4life, as far as your solutions of 'where to put them', who exactly is staffing and paying for these many young offenders institutions and prisons? Especially at a time of cuts to public services where even a Conservative justice minister is talking of restorative justice (i.e. community-based) rather than prison. Who's going to manage all of your house arrests? Under your ideas we'd have quite a few kids locked up in their houses. How do you think that's going to go? Also 'send them back to their home country'? Do you believe that a lot of these kids weren't actually born here? Many of them, like yourself, will have been born in Tottenham with families who have been here for two or three generations.

 

There is a massive gap between the have and the have nots in this country, it is one that keeps growing - and is one of the main reasons why we have this type of criminality. Your dismissal of people as simply 'scum' or 'shit', purely based on the fact that they come from poor families, in a deprived area, with poor education and no employment opportunities is frankly disgusting. You, with your narrow minds and hateful, discriminatory attitudes are as much of the problem is anything else. When you say that this country is going to shit, take a look in the mirror before blaming everyone else.

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You knew that comment would cause trouble, because of how you said it - when you actually qualify it like that, of course a criminal non-citizen should be repatriated. I believe in immigration as a right, but I also believe that is a right you lose when you commit a crime, just as a serious crime costs you the right to freedom.

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Also, just for your attention:

 

Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died on Thursday night show it was a police issue bullet, the Guardian understands.

 

The Guardian's crime correspondent, Sandra Laville, reports:

 

 

The revelation will fuel the fury in Tottenham about the killing of Mark Duggan by armed officers.

 

It also undermines suggestions that there was an exchange of fire between Duggan and the police before he died.

 

The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet.

 

These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object.

 

The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police.

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Some (and I mean quite a lot) have been turned away when applying for jobs and feel they've got in so much trouble nobody will give them a chance, which to a certain degree can be true.

:rolleyes:

 

Yes that is true but if most bothered working with the specialist teams that are there to help them find a job, get apprenticeships when they are discharged etc then it'd be a different story, the sad thing is most give up after a few days because they can't hack the sudden change to their lifestyle ie: working 8 hrs 5 days a week and the temptation to do what their mates are doing (ie: f**k all) proves too much for them.

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How do you know they can't be bothered to get a job?

- Because they've told me to my face, they have rejected numerous Youth Offending Team and Council partnership programmes that are given to them in an effort to get them on the straight and narrow or they break them after a few days to go back chilling out with their mates because they 'can't be arsed' unless it's a job making games for Sony or getting an apprenticeship that pays

Edited by Psygnosis

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I'm glad Bobbins has come here to talk some sense, started to think I was on my own there. And he's right in saying that I do have direct experience of working with inner city youth who were involved in persistent criminality whilst I was a CSO. And in doing so, by the way, I bet I was far more involved in community relations than anyone on here giving their two cents on these 'evil youths'. Part of the reason I left that job is because I didn't want to be a part of the recurring cycle of the criminal justice system which often has no affect whatsoever on preventing re-offending. They need education and access to better opportunities and hope of a better life. Not a constant cycle of crime and prison.

 

The thing is, and what some of you are too short-sighted to understand, is that in no way do I condone violence or harm to people and property. What I am trying to get at is that there are complex reasons as to why people act like this. If you're so ignorant to think 'they're just scum', 'shit breeds shit' (what an awful saying though, to refer to your fellow human as shit.) then there's probably not much I can say to change your minds. But your alienation of the people who cause this crime will do nothing to prevent in happening again as it is their social exclusion that causes it in the first place.

 

Also spurs4life, as far as your solutions of 'where to put them', who exactly is staffing and paying for these many young offenders institutions and prisons? Especially at a time of cuts to public services where even a Conservative justice minister is talking of restorative justice (i.e. community-based) rather than prison. Who's going to manage all of your house arrests? Under your ideas we'd have quite a few kids locked up in their houses. How do you think that's going to go? Also 'send them back to their home country'? Do you believe that a lot of these kids weren't actually born here? Many of them, like yourself, will have been born in Tottenham with families who have been here for two or three generations.

 

There is a massive gap between the have and the have nots in this country, it is one that keeps growing - and is one of the main reasons why we have this type of criminality. Your dismissal of people as simply 'scum' or 'shit', purely based on the fact that they come from poor families, in a deprived area, with poor education and no employment opportunities is frankly disgusting. You, with your narrow minds and hateful, discriminatory attitudes are as much of the problem is anything else. When you say that this country is going to shit, take a look in the mirror before blaming everyone else.

 

I was talking about the countless number of ILLEGAL immigrants in Tottenham. If you have a right to be here and you break the law then you should get dealt with the way everyone else does.

 

And your theories fall down with me as i was a have not like much of the people i know and i have lived amongst the have nots. There is a difference between someone who wants to help their situation through hard work and legal means and someone who just thinks fuck it i'll deal some drugs or run some guns.

 

As for your opinions of me well touche. I lived there worked there and got myself through totally legal means. I don't harm anyone or effect anyone. I just choose to take the side of law abiding people over pricks that shoot and stab people over some spare change or a different post code.

 

 

 

You knew that comment would cause trouble, because of how you said it - when you actually qualify it like that, of course a criminal non-citizen should be repatriated. I believe in immigration as a right, but I also believe that is a right you lose when you commit a crime, just as a serious crime costs you the right to freedom.

Yeah i said it poorly amongst an overly long post whilst i was trying to watch UFC. Sorry about that.

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