Whiskey_Jim Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Jim, I'm forced to ask. In your bizarre fantasy world where Vince is prepared to let Bret Hart go to WCW deliberately fed with a big angle at a time when wwf wasn't exactly wiping the floor with wcw (in fact they were getting hammered in the ratings at the time), what would Vince get out of it? to be fair, I did call that suggestion outlandish. I believe Vince would have got some satisfaction from being so right after all the dirty tactics Bischoff employed such as on-air results revealing and talent stealing. If it was not in fact a work and everything shown on wrestling with shadows was true then why did Vince suggest to Bret to leave WWE for WCW and then screw him over publicly? Isnt it a bit more outlandish to think that the greatest wrestling promoter of all time would gift wrap his biggest competition with one of the very best wrestlers and a perfect way to market him out of spite or by accident after openly saying that said competition wouldnt have the first clue on how to use this wrestler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 17, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 17, 2011 Jim, I'm forced to ask. In your bizarre fantasy world where Vince is prepared to let Bret Hart go to WCW deliberately fed with a big angle at a time when wwf wasn't exactly wiping the floor with wcw (in fact they were getting hammered in the ratings at the time), what would Vince get out of it? Â I don't think it was a work, but purely to play devil's advocate, Vince would have gotten a ready-made, highly-publicised money feud from a returning Bret. He didn't, for the obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey_Jim Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I don't think it was a work, but purely to play devil's advocate, Vince would have gotten a ready-made, highly-publicised money feud from a returning Bret. He didn't, for the obvious reasons. well thanks, Carbomb, at least someone is admitting the validity to some of my suggestions instead of just shitting on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted July 18, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 18, 2011 I don't think it was a work, but purely to play devil's advocate, Vince would have gotten a ready-made, highly-publicised money feud from a returning Bret. He didn't, for the obvious reasons. That idea doesn't wash either for two reasons. 1) How could he guarantee Bret would come back considering the absurd money he was offered to go to WCW and 2) considering he was losing the ratings war to WCW at the time and they were doing the white hot hogan sting angle, why would Vince give them ANOTHER hot angle so they could lose the ratings more for an uncertain period?  Vince suggest to Bret to leave WWE for WCW and then screw him over publicly? I'm sure I'm repeating what you already know here, but I'm going to say it anyway. Bret was offered more money than Vince was preapred to give him so told Bret to go. Then, after that decision was made, Bret refused to lose his title in Canada to Shawn and Vince was paranoid about the possibility of him pulling a Madusa.This is well documented. Vince didn't say "go to wcw" whilst thinking "haha I'm going to screw him over". You've said yourself in another thread that wrestling is a business and it's all about money. So I ask again, how giving a leaving big star a red hot angle for him to take to the competition good business when you're already getting hammered in the ratings?  And, a second question. IF it was a work, why did Vince wait til 2010 to bring Bret back? I mean sure he couldn't have wrestled, but that hasn't changed in ages, and there's been plenty of times where someone major like Bret would've been great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 18, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 18, 2011 That idea doesn't wash either for two reasons. 1) How could he guarantee Bret would come back considering the absurd money he was offered to go to WCW and 2) considering he was losing the ratings war to WCW at the time and they were doing the white hot hogan sting angle, why would Vince give them ANOTHER hot angle so they could lose the ratings more for an uncertain period? Â Well, I suppose the logic would be that Bret would eventually come back after a few years anyway, and by this time wCw would've screwed up his run (assuming he truly believed they wouldn't know what to do with him) to the point where he could get him much cheaper than before. To the second point, I don't think wCw could capitalise on such a WWF-centric storyline, it would only have worked in the WWF at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted July 18, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 18, 2011 Well, I suppose the logic would be that Bret would eventually come back after a few years anyway, and by this time wCw would've screwed up his run (assuming he truly believed they wouldn't know what to do with him) to the point where he could get him much cheaper than before. To the second point, I don't think wCw could capitalise on such a WWF-centric storyline, it would only have worked in the WWF at the time. angle is perhaps the wrong word, I suppose what I mean to say it would put even more fire behind brett turning up to wCw. the wwe pay per view audiences sees him get screwed, spit at vince and draw "wcw" in the air. As for picking Bret up on the cheap, that still doesn't make business sense as Vince has watched wcw do some proper booking and be more popular than them. Again, this was at wCw's PEAK, and noone knew they were going to spiral. and if we assume that wcw couldnt book bret and he could get him "on the cheap" as it were, he'd be damaged goods. Â I realise you're just playing devil's advocate lorrytnt, but all this doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 18, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 18, 2011 angle is perhaps the wrong word, I suppose what I mean to say it would put even more fire behind brett turning up to wCw. the wwe pay per view audiences sees him get screwed, spit at vince and draw "wcw" in the air. As for picking Bret up on the cheap, that still doesn't make business sense as Vince has watched wcw do some proper booking and be more popular than them. Again, this was at wCw's PEAK, and noone knew they were going to spiral. and if we assume that wcw couldnt book bret and he could get him "on the cheap" as it were, he'd be damaged goods. Â I realise you're just playing devil's advocate lorrytnt, but all this doesn't add up. Â I'm just trying to hold it up as best I can for the argument. The fact that it doesn't add up all that well is why I don't think it's a work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What's the deal with HHH and MVP and a screwdriver incident. It crops up every now and then but no one either knows anything about it or wants to talk about it. Â Anyone shed any light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted July 18, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 18, 2011 What's the deal with HHH and MVP and a screwdriver incident. It crops up every now and then but no one either knows anything about it or wants to talk about it. Anyone shed any light?   During the summer of 2009 a shite wrestling website, Rajah, CageSideSeats, or some site equally as ridiculous claimed that the reason MVP was being buried was because he was sick of HHH burying all the young talent, so took a screwdriver out of his bag, and tried to attack HHH with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 18, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 18, 2011 There was a similar rumour about Joey Mercury attacking Stephanie, but he wisely said "that would never happen, because if you tried to physically attack Vince or Stephanie you wouldnt leave the building alive". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted July 18, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 18, 2011 There was a similar rumour about Joey Mercury attacking Stephanie, but he wisely said "that would never happen, because if you tried to physically attack Vince or Stephanie you wouldnt leave the building alive". Â Â In would imagine, that presumably extends to Trips as of the last 5 years or so also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey_Jim Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I'm just trying to hold it up as best I can for the argument. The fact that it doesn't add up all that well is why I don't think it's a work. its at least inspiring some decent debate, in the end it doesn matter what I think because short of Bret and Vince admitting it was a work we'll have to just assume it wasnt but I cant help but think it was. doesnt it strike you as odd though that Vince would screw Bret like this knowing he was going WCW and give him the perfect debut angle? We have to remember the Madusa title angle, the near thefts of Luger, Hall, Waltman and Nash and the on air results reading to remember that Bischoff wasnt afraid to openly address WWE on TV in order to maintain the gap in ratings.... so why would Vince gift wrap them something like this unless he knew they were doomed to fail by hiring Bret? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 18, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 18, 2011 its at least inspiring some decent debate, in the end it doesn matter what I think because short of Bret and Vince admitting it was a work we'll have to just assume it wasnt but I cant help but think it was. doesnt it strike you as odd though that Vince would screw Bret like this knowing he was going WCW and give him the perfect debut angle? We have to remember the Madusa title angle, the near thefts of Luger, Hall, Waltman and Nash and the on air results reading to remember that Bischoff wasnt afraid to openly address WWE on TV in order to maintain the gap in ratings.... so why would Vince gift wrap them something like this unless he knew they were doomed to fail by hiring Bret? Â I don't think he was gift-wrapping them a "perfect debut angle", as you put it. Pretty much everyone who's commented on it said it was because Vince didn't want Bret to go to WcW "untarnished", as it were. And he wouldn't have known he'd be giving them a perfect debut angle if people didn't know it was a screwjob - he didn't know he was being recorded promising Bret something he was later to go back on, so it's not like there was an intent to give WCw something so big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey_Jim Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I don't think he was gift-wrapping them a "perfect debut angle", as you put it. Pretty much everyone who's commented on it said it was because Vince didn't want Bret to go to WcW "untarnished", as it were. And he wouldn't have known he'd be giving them a perfect debut angle if people didn't know it was a screwjob - he didn't know he was being recorded promising Bret something he was later to go back on, so it's not like there was an intent to give WCw something so big. are you perhaps underestimating Vince there a little by suggesting there is no way he would of known exactly what he was doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 18, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 18, 2011 are you perhaps underestimating Vince there a little by suggesting there is no way he would of known exactly what he was doing? Â How is it underestimating him to suggest he didn't know he was being taped? He's not psychic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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