WWE Raw - Power To The People Night

[PepperPlunge]

Edit: I should mention I only posted about Meltzer because I knew it'd wind RepoMan up.

Well that's a little pathetic really. I mean people seem to be getting wound up when I'm discussing Mason, but none of it has been directed at anyone personally to 'wind them up' or anything. I respect Meltzer, but it does annoy me if anyone uses him as gospel, which too many do.

 

So even if people are all over Sin Cara on HERE

 

I think on here more people dislike Sin Cara than like him.

Yes, very much true, and on many other forums I've read too actually. It goes back to the John Cena treatment though - kids all love him, and I bet their parents were letting them in the WWE chat room to talk about him and whatever. At least the adult population realised posting on forums isn't going to get Mason a push, and made sure he won the vote instead. I admire their efforts.

 

Zack Ryder's had 'Ryder' chants at Raw shows. He's had crowd signs too. He's developed his character through his own means. I've a feeling he might be more popular than your Mason Ryan despite his 'huge league of fans around the world'.

 

Come on, this is one of the guys defending your point.

Does being popular online always translate though? I mean there's a reason ROH is small league in comparison, and why guys like Daniel Bryan aren't getting pushed to the moon like others are. If the Interwebs were in control, Ryder would be WWE Champ and Bryan would be World Heavyweight Champ and the company would die in a few months.

 

ROH aren't big on character. Daniel Bryan (in his WWE stint at least) seems to have been saddled with bad characters. I think he has more potential character wise that's been untapped. His promo on NXT against Michael Cole showed something interesting and it was pretty well delivered but they didn't really go back to it. Him choking the ring announcer with a tie put a stop to his heel character he was going to take up which I imagine would have been much more interesting than what he's doing now. They're playing it safe with him and using him as the go to guy if they need someone to have a good match with.

 

Zack Ryder is big on character though and so there's potential there. My non-wrestling friend has subscribed to his videos and still quotes the part where he smashes the Roddy Piper figure. He has a chance of drawing - especially as the signs are there already that he has a fan base. And before you say Mason Ryan clearly has a fan base - the voting was wrong.

[The King Of Swing]

Personally I'm expecting a non finish to the Cara/Bourne match within three minutes of the bell ringing, would be awesome bomb if Mason ran in battered them.

[RepoMan]

ROH aren't big on character. Daniel Bryan (in his WWE stint at least) seems to have been saddled with bad characters. I think he has more potential character wise that's been untapped. His promo on NXT against Michael Cole showed something interesting and it was pretty well delivered but they didn't really go back to it. Him choking the ring announcer with a tie put a stop to his heel character he was going to take up which I imagine would have been much more interesting than what he's doing now. They're playing it safe with him and using him as the go to guy if they need someone to have a good match with.

 

Zack Ryder is big on character though and so there's potential there. My non-wrestling friend has subscribed to his videos and still quotes the part where he smashes the Roddy Piper figure. He has a chance of drawing - especially as the signs are there already that he has a fan base. And before you say Mason Ryan clearly has a fan base - the voting was wrong.

I agree that Bryan and Ryder are both talented in their own ways, but all I mean is the Internet guys going crazy over them doesn't automatically translate to drawing power.

 

Mason Ryan has over 12,000 people that like him on Facebook! That's pretty impressive for a new heel who apparently isn't over. Yes, Sin Cara has a few more, but that's to be expected because he'll appeal to younger people that are on FB.

 

Voting in shows has a clear history of the underdog winning. Take Pop Idol when Will Young won over Gareth Gates. Like the Diamond Cutter, no one saw it coming. Same with Britain's Got Talent this year where an older dude won over a small cutesy guy. Sometimes fanbases are just more passionate and willing to vote more. And that's what is fantastic about Mason Ryan's fans, and what will get him to the top.

[PepperPlunge]

ROH aren't big on character. Daniel Bryan (in his WWE stint at least) seems to have been saddled with bad characters. I think he has more potential character wise that's been untapped. His promo on NXT against Michael Cole showed something interesting and it was pretty well delivered but they didn't really go back to it. Him choking the ring announcer with a tie put a stop to his heel character he was going to take up which I imagine would have been much more interesting than what he's doing now. They're playing it safe with him and using him as the go to guy if they need someone to have a good match with.

 

Zack Ryder is big on character though and so there's potential there. My non-wrestling friend has subscribed to his videos and still quotes the part where he smashes the Roddy Piper figure. He has a chance of drawing - especially as the signs are there already that he has a fan base. And before you say Mason Ryan clearly has a fan base - the voting was wrong.

I agree that Bryan and Ryder are both talented in their own ways, but all I mean is the Internet guys going crazy over them doesn't automatically translate to drawing power.

 

Mason Ryan has over 12,000 people that like him on Facebook! That's pretty impressive for a new heel who apparently isn't over. Yes, Sin Cara has a few more, but that's to be expected because he'll appeal to younger people that are on FB.

 

Voting in shows has a clear history of the underdog winning. Take Pop Idol when Will Young won over Gareth Gates. Like the Diamond Cutter, no one saw it coming. Same with Britain's Got Talent this year where an older dude won over a small cutesy guy. Sometimes fanbases are just more passionate and willing to vote more. And that's what is fantastic about Mason Ryan's fans, and what will get him to the top.

 

Maybe Mason Ryan will go the way of Joe McElderry. I take your point though. WWE are lacking a monster big guy other than Zeke so I hope he succeeds. I just hope he doesn't become the first British WWE champion rather than an Englishman. But yeah, my argument was more to do with what happened with the voting and as far as I'm concerned it genuinely messed up so I'm glad to put it to bed.

[Duke]

Mason Ryan has over 12,000 people that like him on Facebook!

Primo Colon has over 13,000. David Otunga has 22,000. Sin Cara has over 200,000. A few more? Come now.

[The Dart]

So even if people are all over Sin Cara on HERE

 

I think on here more people dislike Sin Cara than like him.

Yes, very much true, and on many other forums I've read too actually. It goes back to the John Cena treatment though - kids all love him, and I bet their parents were letting them in the WWE chat room to talk about him and whatever. At least the adult population realised posting on forums isn't going to get Mason a push, and made sure he won the vote instead. I admire their efforts.

 

 

At least now we know you are joking.

[RepoMan]

At least now we know you are joking.

I don't think anything I said was funny? At least I'm backing up my points with reason. Whether you or others agree is irrelevant. I'm happy to discuss.

[PepperPlunge]

Your signature's already grating on me.

[jimufctna24]

Had he stayed on, Brock would probably have been the bigger star. It's a moot point though.

He wouldnt have. Read Brock's book for the reason he left. Vince never saw Lesnar as the next big superstar. In 2002 he may have, but in early 2004, Lesnar wasnt as loved as he used to be. He saw him as a Kurt Angle type wrestler, feuding with The Rock one week and Bob Holly the next. As far as WWE was concerned, he'd gone as far as he could. Its one of the reasons why he took a fit and fucked off. Lesnar went as far as he could.

Erm sorry Ian but I dont entirely agree.

 

Brock suspected that Angle who he confided him stooged to Vince about him leaving. Brock told Vince straight that he wanted time of several times and argued with Vince about this repeatdly.

 

Those were the factors of why Vince and WWE soured on Lesnar and made him lose the belt, nothing to do with Lesnar's talent or performance. Vince was paying Brock massive money from mid 2003 for a long term deal, no way would have Brock not been pushed down the fans throuts.

 

If Brock had stayed he would have become a bigger star due to pure longevity.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Vince was paying Brock massive money from mid 2003 for a long term deal, no way would have Brock not been pushed down the fans throuts.

Kurt Angle was getting paid massive money as well, but he would slip down the card and rejoin the main event ranks. So would Shawn Michaels. For me, Brock was never going to be a Batista or a John Cena (and thats the argument here - not that he wasnt going to be a bigger star or that he wasnt a big star). Brock as the company's top babyface didnt workout how they had hoped and they turned him heel. His heel turn was entertaining, but he was never in danger of pushing Triple H to one side. And he was a SmackDown wrestler, away from the big show and the big belt. He wasnt the man in the company in 2003, and he was never going to be. What else was there for him to try? Especially with Cena and Batista about to join the ranks of the main event. Lesnar would probably have been the one dropping the title to Cena in 2005, but I cant see how he'd have been as big as Batista or Cena. He's 10 times the bigger star he was in WWE now. He was right to leave when he did. And if he came back to WWE (which is probably unlikely), he'd 10 times the star he was in 2003. Not saying it was entirely his fault, because business was shit in 2003, but if he'd have stayed, I could see him as a Kurt Angle type. Angle was a big star and everyone wanted to see what he did in the ring because you knew he'd deliever. Not everyone wanted to pay to see it though.

[jimufctna24]

Vince was paying Brock massive money from mid 2003 for a long term deal, no way would have Brock not been pushed down the fans throuts.

Kurt Angle was getting paid massive money as well, but he would slip down the card and rejoin the main event ranks. So would Shawn Michaels. For me, Brock was never going to be a Batista or a John Cena (and thats the argument here - not that he wasnt going to be a bigger star or that he wasnt a big star). Brock as the company's top babyface didnt workout how they had hoped and they turned him heel. His heel turn was entertaining, but he was never in danger of pushing Triple H to one side. And he was a SmackDown wrestler, away from the big show and the big belt. He wasnt the man in the company in 2003, and he was never going to be. What else was there for him to try? Especially with Cena and Batista about to join the ranks of the main event. Lesnar would probably have been the one dropping the title to Cena in 2005, but I cant see how he'd have been as big as Batista or Cena. He's 10 times the bigger star he was in WWE now. He was right to leave when he did. And if he came back to WWE (which is probably unlikely), he'd 10 times the star he was in 2003. Not saying it was entirely his fault, because business was shit in 2003, but if he'd have stayed, I could see him as a Kurt Angle type. Angle was a big star and everyone wanted to see what he did in the ring because you knew he'd deliever. Not everyone wanted to pay to see it though.

I can agree with almost all of that.

 

I think he had the talent to become bigger than Batista or at least as big, but I get that isnt the argument, I understand that there is a good chance if Brock had stook around Batista would have been pushed above him and become a bigger star. I espicially agree with that he would have dropped the belt to Cena and not JBL. I can kind of agree that he would have ended up in the section below Cena on the star level with the likes of Edge,Orton and Angle.

 

It is a shame Brock was never the lead heel on RAW that would have been gold. He was definatly my favorite heel on his way out and with the exception of maybe Edge, Punk and the 2000 version of HHH I didnt enjoy a heel more in that decade.

[digforvictory]

I think because we all remember Brock coming in and destroying Undertaker, Hogan and Rock within 6 months added to the fact that the Brock of today is one of the biggest stars in sport it's hard to picture a scenario where Batista is a bigger star than him.

 

He probably would have been, Cena definitely would have been, but it's hard to get your head around it.

 

We all know Vince loves Cena. If Cena had shown up during the 80's or the attitude era do you think he would still have been given the god push?

[RepoMan]

Cena could've worked in the 80s, though at the same time as Hogan he would've struggled.

 

During the Attitude Era, he would've needed to stick to his original gimmick, or at least the edgy parts.

[King Pitcos]

I read the wrestling chapters of Brock's book yesterday, and part of the reason he left is because he was being phased down from the main event and wasn't allowed to win all the time. He complained about losing a non-title house show match to The Rock during his 2003-04 heel champion stint -- a match I'd never known happened. I looked it up and it was actually a house show just prior to WM19, when Brock was a babyface. Wrestling books often fuck up chronology but anyway, he was also whinging about losing the title to Eddie Guerrero and having to lower himself to wrestling Bob Holly. He hated the schedule and environment when he was making the headline money as the golden boy, and couldn't be fucked with it at all when they lost faith in him and he was going to be making less money.

 

Point being that Brock wasn't the man on Smackdown before he left, in the way that Batista and Cena were the following year. WWE had already lost faith in him as the top banana.

[jimufctna24]

I read the wrestling chapters of Brock's book yesterday, and part of the reason he left is because he was being phased down from the main event and wasn't allowed to win all the time. He complained about losing a non-title house show match to The Rock during his 2003-04 heel champion stint -- a match I'd never known happened. I looked it up and it was actually a house show just prior to WM19, when Brock was a babyface. Wrestling books often fuck up chronology but anyway, he was also whinging about losing the title to Eddie Guerrero and having to lower himself to wrestling Bob Holly. He hated the schedule and environment when he was making the headline money as the golden boy, and couldn't be fucked with it at all when they lost faith in him and he was going to be making less money.

 

Point being that Brock wasn't the man on Smackdown before he left, in the way that Batista and Cena were the following year. WWE had already lost faith in him as the top banana.

Interesting

 

Have you a link to where you found this.