Scottish Football Discussion Thread 2010/11

[Daaaaaad!]

Anyway.

 

Here's an interesting bit of theoretical speculation. Lennon has said he fears the sack for not leading Celtic to the SPL. The general consensus is that the club and the fans want him to stay but they wouldn't blame him if he left. Would Celtic have the stones to be the bad guys in the situation and sack him for his own safety, rather than giving the appearance that he left because of the terrorists? Sure the Rangers fans would be loving it and the Celtic fans would be in uproar, but would that be better for everyone?

[martyngnr]

Seeing as we never seem to talk about ACTUAL football anymore this probably belongs in here......

 

Sun clicky.....

 

SCOTLAND striker Garry O'Connor did a runner from cops after they swooped on him in a drugs bust.

O'Connor, 28, is believed to have been in a car with another person when officers approached, but fled on foot.

 

Officers quickly caught up with the ex-Hibs ace in a lane in Edinburgh and found him in possession of a white powder, suspected to be cocaine.

 

He was detained and quizzed, then released, after being lifted in Hope Street on Saturday night - and the powder was sent to a lab for analysis.

 

Just 24 hours later, Hearts players Ian Black and Robert Ogleby were allegedly nabbed with an illegal substance in a nightclub toilet in the city in an unrelated swoop.

 

Staff at the Lava & Ignite nightspot are believed to have tipped off police.

 

Midfielder Black, 26, and Ogleby, 19, are accused of having a Class A drug in their possession.

 

A police spokesperson last night confirmed: "Two men, aged 26 and 19, have been cautioned and charged with possession."

 

Of the O'Connor incident, a force spokesperson said: "A 28-year-old man was detained and released pending further inquiries."

 

Scotland ace O'Connor - who has caught the eye of Celtic boss Neil Lennon since being released by English side Barnsley - was quizzed by cops last month after his

[David]

Of course we aren

[Kenny McBride]

It's also EXACTLY how Fergie had his success at Aberdeen. It was all west coast bias, all the time. The referees, the SFA, the media, the other teams in Strathclyde (and even Edinburgh, because it's all south) were all out to get Aberdeen and never gave them a fair shake. It may come across as paranoid bullshit, but breeding a siege mentality is a classic managerial technique.

 

I don't think you can argue that the refereeing nonsense earlier in the season wasn't a hefty black mark against the SFA. They gave Celtic a giant stick to beat them with. The bombs and bullets and death threats and all that other shit pretty clearly demonstrates that there is an element of anti-Catholic/Irish bigotry in this country, however small it may be. Lennon never actually accused anyone of lying down to Rangers. He just said that it didn't look like Hearts had given them much of a game and he hoped someone would before the end of the season.

 

Oh, and the story from Walter the dignified, gentlemanly, wily fox in the papers today is that all the bullshit of the season started with Lennon getting on at referees. I'm sure glad nobody thinks Lennon brings it on himself.

[Reznor]

The reasons are all intimated in paragraphs 2-4 of my post as to why i believe guys like Martin O'Neill and Liam Brady never got it as bad, although lets not pretend that O'Neill had a particularly easy time either.

 

And how cute and convenient that it's a snug '2 sides of the same coin' situation again, because i don't remember anyone from any other team being subjected to such a brutal, vicious and sustained campaign. It's been going on for over a decade for heavens sake, and you still try to insult peoples intelligence by blindly churning out the long-since-dispelled myth that it's all because of the type of player/manager he is or because he's a twat or whatever, and more sinister motives just don't come into the equation. God, even most Rangers fans are past that point now, instead changing tact and trying to emphasize how much of a minority it is that's causing it.

 

You're wrong about Lennon in terms of on-field matters too btw. Celtic fans are generally more than happy with the side he's building, the entertainment value on show, and the improvement in consistency over previous seasons. We were about 15 points better off than last season, and that would've been a lot more if it wasn't for Lennon coming in and winning 8 or 9 games on the trot at the end of last season. Mowbray couldn't even manage 3 wins in a row. Ok, he came up just short by a bawhair, but all things considered, and taking into account the 'distractions' he faced, Lenny's done a grand job in transforming the team. You only have to go back and see what his first choice X1 was at the start of the season to see the good work he's done.

 

Of course you want to win the league every year, but bringing in a 38 year old with no management experience whatsoever does not suggest that it was ever a case of 'win the league or you're out the door'. Lenny's job is safe as houses for footballing reasons, the fact that he's brought a unity to the club and has all the fans singing from the same hymnsheet is just a great little bonus. If he loses the league next season he'll be on shaky ground, but right now, despite the disappointment there's a lot of optimism among the Celtic support, so long as he is not forced out. Oh, and their consistency, points tally and euro run (not to mention their record vs your mob) would suggest that Rangers aren't quite as terrible as you like to say. Terrible to watch for sure, but just as gritty, stubborn and hard to beat as they always are, Le Guen era aside.

 

I'll presume most of the rest is addressing someone elses points, because it's going off on all sorts of tangents, and I can't remember typing "deserving" or mentioning your usual favourite subjects of conspiracies, establishment and suchlike.

[The Cum Doctor]

It may come across as paranoid bullshit, but breeding a siege mentality is a classic managerial technique.

 

Yup, and that's basically why Lennon was probably the right guy after Mowbray and Strachan. Whoever has the task coming in next time has an easier job thanks to the united front of the fans, that's assuming Lennon goes. He might not though.

 

On the football side, I'll be interested to see what Lennon does if he stays. He needs a centre back. Maybe two. He needs a striker as well I reckon. Too much inconsistancy alongside Hooper. I think that if he does TOO much chopping and changing it could be detrimental and he does have the base of a good side there. He changed so much that I'd say next season would be the real test.

 

It certainly comes across to me as a work in progress on the pitch at Celtic, and with that in mind, it'd certainly be unfair if he were to be sacked from the job.

[David]

You know what Reznor, I'll just leave you and others like you to think whatever you like. The opinions of non-Old Firm fans regarding Lennon have been posted in this thread, and I think it's best left at that.

 

If you wish to buy into a cultural bias or whatever, then go for it. As I said, I'm actually half-Irish. I've lived in the west of Scotland my entire life and I've not seen anything outwith the usual tit-for-tat shite between morons that suggest I'm being victimised or downtrodden.

 

In fact, most of the crying and shouting usually comes from the Plastic Paddy brigade, who's great great grandfathers uncle used to visit Dublin on holiday.

 

As someone of real, actual Irish descent I find such characters, and their pathetic accusations, to be an embarrassment.

[cogitoergozoomo]

You know what Reznor, I'll just leave you and others like you to think whatever you like. The opinions of non-Old Firm fans regarding Lennon have been posted in this thread, and I think it's best left at that.

 

If you wish to buy into a cultural bias or whatever, then go for it. As I said, I'm actually half-Irish. I've lived in the west of Scotland my entire life and I've not seen anything outwith the usual tit-for-tat shite between morons that suggest I'm being victimised or downtrodden.

 

In fact, most of the crying and shouting usually comes from the Plastic Paddy brigade, who's great great grandfathers uncle used to visit Dublin on holiday.

 

As someone of real, actual Irish descent I find such characters, and their pathetic accusations, to be an embarrassment.

 

That's fair enough David that's your opinion but I can't agree with what you said about bringing Lennon's managerial record into question.

 

He lost a cup final in extra time to his greatest rival.

He took 7 points to 4 in Old Firms. 10-4 if you include the match last year which was fairly meaningless other than pride.

He broke the SPL record for most clean sheets in a season.

He won 16 SPL games in a row.

He amassed enough points to win the SPL in all but one season since the SPL started (I don't include beating Celtic's point tallys).

He will probably (if you believe the bookies) take home Celtic's first silverware in two and a bit years.

The team have got stronger and stronger (Inverness excluded) all season.

His transfer actions (whether directly chosen by him or not) cannot be questioned.

 

All that when inheriting a squad of diddies. I think there is a no reason why Celtic fans should not be optimistic. Especially if we can hold onto Izzy, Kayal and Hooper.

 

Rangers held onto Celtic's coat tails early in the season before the first Old Firm by coming from behind with some very late goals. That combined with a wobbly spell in November was when the league was lost. Not when Sammy fluffed the penalty and not when they went mad against Caley. There should have been a healthy lead by then.

 

Ally McCoist will be doing very, very well to replicate Lennon's first season.

 

Not bad for a rookie manager. Cut out a few silly mistakes and we should be flying next year.

[cogitoergozoomo]

You know what Reznor, I'll just leave you and others like you to think whatever you like. The opinions of non-Old Firm fans regarding Lennon have been posted in this thread, and I think it's best left at that.

 

If you wish to buy into a cultural bias or whatever, then go for it. As I said, I'm actually half-Irish. I've lived in the west of Scotland my entire life and I've not seen anything outwith the usual tit-for-tat shite between morons that suggest I'm being victimised or downtrodden.

 

In fact, most of the crying and shouting usually comes from the Plastic Paddy brigade, who's great great grandfathers uncle used to visit Dublin on holiday.

 

As someone of real, actual Irish descent I find such characters, and their pathetic accusations, to be an embarrassment.

 

That's fair enough David that's your opinion but I can't agree with what you said about bringing Lennon's managerial record into question.

 

He lost a cup final in extra time to his greatest rival.

He took 7 points to 4 in Old Firms. 10-4 if you include the match last year which was fairly meaningless other than pride.

He broke the SPL record for most clean sheets in a season.

He won 16 SPL games in a row.

He amassed enough points to win the SPL in all but one season since the SPL started (I don't include beating Celtic's point tallys).

He will probably (if you believe the bookies) take home Celtic's first silverware in two and a bit years.

The team have got stronger and stronger (Inverness excluded) all season.

His actions (whether directly chosen by him or not) cannot be questioned.

 

All that when inheriting a squad of diddies. I think there is a no reason why Celtic fans should not be optimistic. Especially if we can hold onto Izzy, Kayal and Hooper.

 

Rangers held onto Celtic's coat tails early in the season before the first Old Firm by coming from behind with some very late goals. That combined with a wobbly spell in November was when the league was lost. Not when Sammy fluffed the penalty and not when they went mad against Caley. There should have been a healthy lead by then.

 

Ally McCoist will be doing very, very well to replicate Lennon's first season.

 

Not bad for a rookie manager. Cut out a few silly mistakes and we should be flying next year.

 

...... but he has won nothing.....yet

[Chaka Demus]

You know what Reznor, I'll just leave you and others like you to think whatever you like. The opinions of non-Old Firm fans regarding Lennon have been posted in this thread, and I think it's best left at that.

 

If you wish to buy into a cultural bias or whatever, then go for it. As I said, I'm actually half-Irish. I've lived in the west of Scotland my entire life and I've not seen anything outwith the usual tit-for-tat shite between morons that suggest I'm being victimised or downtrodden.

 

In fact, most of the crying and shouting usually comes from the Plastic Paddy brigade, who's great great grandfathers uncle used to visit Dublin on holiday.

 

As someone of real, actual Irish descent I find such characters, and their pathetic accusations, to be an embarrassment.

 

That's fair enough David that's your opinion but I can't agree with what you said about bringing Lennon's managerial record into question.

 

He lost a cup final in extra time to his greatest rival.

He took 7 points to 4 in Old Firms. 10-4 if you include the match last year which was fairly meaningless other than pride.

He broke the SPL record for most clean sheets in a season.

He won 16 SPL games in a row.

He amassed enough points to win the SPL in all but one season since the SPL started (I don't include beating Celtic's point tallys).

He will probably (if you believe the bookies) take home Celtic's first silverware in two and a bit years.

The team have got stronger and stronger (Inverness excluded) all season.

His actions (whether directly chosen by him or not) cannot be questioned.

 

All that when inheriting a squad of diddies. I think there is a no reason why Celtic fans should not be optimistic. Especially if we can hold onto Izzy, Kayal and Hooper.

 

Rangers held onto Celtic's coat tails early in the season before the first Old Firm by coming from behind with some very late goals. That combined with a wobbly spell in November was when the league was lost. Not when Sammy fluffed the penalty and not when they went mad against Caley. There should have been a healthy lead by then.

 

Ally McCoist will be doing very, very well to replicate Lennon's first season.

 

Not bad for a rookie manager. Cut out a few silly mistakes and we should be flying next year.

 

 

All of that is just words on a page to me. All this free-flowing Celtic shite does my head in. Especially since we are seen as "anti-football" yet scored more goals than the Green and White Brazil in the East End.

 

You can throw as many stats around as you wish but a league is decided over 38 games, not 16 consecutive wins, not a record amount of clean sheets. The "He amassed enough points to win any other SPL season" tickled me the most. It wasn't any other SPL season, it was the 2010/2011 season and Rangers won it. And Neil lLennon has still to win as much as a tea cup in charge of Celtic. And if Celtic fans are willing to accept the Scottish Cup as a reasonable season then you really should take a look at your ambitions.

 

The poorest Rangers team in a generation up against a "Younger, fitter and better" Celtic. If roles were reversed I would be absolutley gutted that we didn't absolutley bury you this season.

 

Now we have our finances intact (as opposed to what they were), Money to spend, able to renew contracts and the possibility of a 3rd straight season of the Scottish CL money pot going straight to us. Celtic should have ran away with the title this year and didn't. Now we're going to come back stronger than we were this season. You've missed your chance to put us in the shadows.

 

WATP

[cogitoergozoomo]

You know what Reznor, I'll just leave you and others like you to think whatever you like. The opinions of non-Old Firm fans regarding Lennon have been posted in this thread, and I think it's best left at that.

 

If you wish to buy into a cultural bias or whatever, then go for it. As I said, I'm actually half-Irish. I've lived in the west of Scotland my entire life and I've not seen anything outwith the usual tit-for-tat shite between morons that suggest I'm being victimised or downtrodden.

 

In fact, most of the crying and shouting usually comes from the Plastic Paddy brigade, who's great great grandfathers uncle used to visit Dublin on holiday.

 

As someone of real, actual Irish descent I find such characters, and their pathetic accusations, to be an embarrassment.

 

That's fair enough David that's your opinion but I can't agree with what you said about bringing Lennon's managerial record into question.

 

He lost a cup final in extra time to his greatest rival.

He took 7 points to 4 in Old Firms. 10-4 if you include the match last year which was fairly meaningless other than pride.

He broke the SPL record for most clean sheets in a season.

He won 16 SPL games in a row.

He amassed enough points to win the SPL in all but one season since the SPL started (I don't include beating Celtic's point tallys).

He will probably (if you believe the bookies) take home Celtic's first silverware in two and a bit years.

The team have got stronger and stronger (Inverness excluded) all season.

His actions (whether directly chosen by him or not) cannot be questioned.

 

All that when inheriting a squad of diddies. I think there is a no reason why Celtic fans should not be optimistic. Especially if we can hold onto Izzy, Kayal and Hooper.

 

Rangers held onto Celtic's coat tails early in the season before the first Old Firm by coming from behind with some very late goals. That combined with a wobbly spell in November was when the league was lost. Not when Sammy fluffed the penalty and not when they went mad against Caley. There should have been a healthy lead by then.

 

Ally McCoist will be doing very, very well to replicate Lennon's first season.

 

Not bad for a rookie manager. Cut out a few silly mistakes and we should be flying next year.

 

 

All of that is just words on a page to me. All this free-flowing Celtic shite does my head in. Especially since we are seen as "anti-football" yet scored more goals than the Green and White Brazil in the East End.

 

You can throw as many stats around as you wish but a league is decided over 38 games, not 16 consecutive wins, not a record amount of clean sheets. The "He amassed enough points to win any other SPL season" tickled me the most. It wasn't any other SPL season, it was the 2010/2011 season and Rangers won it. And Neil lLennon has still to win as much as a tea cup in charge of Celtic. And if Celtic fans are willing to accept the Scottish Cup as a reasonable season then you really should take a look at your ambitions.

 

The poorest Rangers team in a generation up against a "Younger, fitter and better" Celtic. If roles were reversed I would be absolutley gutted that we didn't absolutley bury you this season.

 

Now we have our finances intact (as opposed to what they were), Money to spend, able to renew contracts and the possibility of a 3rd straight season of the Scottish CL money pot going straight to us. Celtic should have ran away with the title this year and didn't. Now we're going to come back stronger than we were this season. You've missed your chance to put us in the shadows.

 

WATP

 

Scoring goals (one more) has no reflection at all on the way the teams play football. Celtic squandered a ridiculous amount of chances all season long, especially when Hooper was out. Hopefully that will be addressed in the close season.

 

You should be pleased that despite the points tally Celtic got, Rangers won the league. I am not trying to take anything away from Rangers. All I am saying is it shouldn't be used against Lennon. 92 points is a more than reasonable tally. I bet you were doubled over laughing when he was appointed but it wasn't till two weeks ago that you started laughing again.

 

Even the most died in the wool Rangers fan must admit Lennon has exceeded your greatest expectations.

 

Celtic should (I know, shoulda woulda coulda) won the SPL this season.

 

When you say you will come back stronger next year that is just words on a page to me. Until the players are signed and the contracts renewed I will still be dubious about the takeover.

[Chaka Demus]

Scoring goals (one more) has no reflection at all on the way the teams play football. Celtic squandered a ridiculous amount of chances all season long, especially when Hooper was out. Hopefully that will be addressed in the close season.

 

You should be pleased that despite the points tally Celtic got, Rangers won the league. I am not trying to take anything away from Rangers. All I am saying is it shouldn't be used against Lennon. 92 points is a more than reasonable tally. I bet you were doubled over laughing when he was appointed but it wasn't till two weeks ago that you started laughing again.

 

Even the most died in the wool Rangers fan must admit Lennon has exceeded your greatest expectations.

 

Celtic should (I know, shoulda woulda coulda) won the SPL this season.

 

When you say you will come back stronger next year that is just words on a page to me. Until the players are signed and the contracts renewed I will still be dubious about the takeover.

 

Papac signed an extension today and McGregor has stated his ambition to stay.

[Reznor]

You know what Reznor, I'll just leave you and others like you to think whatever you like. The opinions of non-Old Firm fans regarding Lennon have been posted in this thread, and I think it's best left at that.

 

If you wish to buy into a cultural bias or whatever, then go for it. As I said, I'm actually half-Irish. I've lived in the west of Scotland my entire life and I've not seen anything outwith the usual tit-for-tat shite between morons that suggest I'm being victimised or downtrodden.

 

In fact, most of the crying and shouting usually comes from the Plastic Paddy brigade, who's great great grandfathers uncle used to visit Dublin on holiday.

 

As someone of real, actual Irish descent I find such characters, and their pathetic accusations, to be an embarrassment.

Ok. The thing is, "me and others like me" comprise the majority of people in the country with any kind of informed opinion on the matter, outwith the lunatic fringes of certain supports. It's not just the 'celtic-minded' living in their own wee worlds. Apart from yourself, very few others on the thread are actually brazen enough to deny that the extent of the grief Neil Lennon's having to endure is an issue with bigotry right at the heart of it. It's generally accepted now by fans, the media, and pretty much all observers, that you could almost call it 'fact'.

 

You're a conundrum David. You constantly whine on about "The bigot brothers" therefore it's fair to say you believe Celtic and Rangers have more than their fair share of them. In fact, usually you say it's the only reason why those two clubs are bigger than the likes of Motherwell. But then, when the most blatant and serious example of it comes to light, is causing a national scandal and putting a man in fear of his life, and most of the country is in agreement that prejudice plays a crucial role in why it's happening, you decide to play dumb, deny it's even real and proclaim it's all brought on by himself because he's a twat.

 

If you weren't posting reasonably long pieces, i would say you were just a troll.

 

Anyways....

 

It may come across as paranoid bullshit, but breeding a siege mentality is a classic managerial technique.

 

Yup, and that's basically why Lennon was probably the right guy after Mowbray and Strachan. Whoever has the task coming in next time has an easier job thanks to the united front of the fans, that's assuming Lennon goes. He might not though.

 

On the football side, I'll be interested to see what Lennon does if he stays. He needs a centre back. Maybe two. He needs a striker as well I reckon. Too much inconsistancy alongside Hooper. I think that if he does TOO much chopping and changing it could be detrimental and he does have the base of a good side there. He changed so much that I'd say next season would be the real test.

 

It certainly comes across to me as a work in progress on the pitch at Celtic, and with that in mind, it'd certainly be unfair if he were to be sacked from the job.

Another centre half and goalkeeper is my priority, with another striker after that. In the case of a centre half, preferably one who can actually head a ball this time. They've already got Kelvin Wilson coming in from Notts Forest, I have no idea if he's up to much. They've also got a fullback coming in from Cardiff City which will probably mean Hinkel and maybe Cha are for the off.

 

Just as important is probably the amount of deadwood they should be shifting to go towards one or two first choice players ; there's about a dozen or more they could easily leave aside and it wouldn't affect the squad one bit.

 

I don't think there will be much coming in terms of quantity, as the midfield's the best it's been since the days of Lambert/Lennon/Thompson/Petrov/Moravcik. It's just a case of keeping the good players they have and topping up the defence, with maybe a striker as a bonus.

 

It seems weird to say that the focus should be on the defence because statistically they've been brilliant, but that doesn't tell half the story

[David]

You're a conundrum David. You constantly whine on about "The bigot brothers" therefore it's fair to say you believe Celtic and Rangers have more than their fair share of them. In fact, usually you say it's the only reason why those two clubs are bigger than the likes of Motherwell. But then, when the most blatant and serious example of it comes to light, is causing a national scandal and putting a man in fear of his life, and most of the country is in agreement that prejudice plays a crucial role in why it's happening, you decide to play dumb, deny it's even real and proclaim it's all brought on by himself because he's a twat.

I never said that prejudice plays no role in what's happening to Lennon. I've mentioned the fact that virtually all fans outwith the Old Firm in this thread have said that it plays a role, but it's not the only reason for it.

 

In short;

 

Does bigotry play a major part? Yes.

Does Lennon deserve the treatment he's been getting? No.

Is Lennon entirely innocent in this situation? No.

Could he do more to avoid stoking the flames of the situation? Yes.

[Reznor]

You're a conundrum David. You constantly whine on about "The bigot brothers" therefore it's fair to say you believe Celtic and Rangers have more than their fair share of them. In fact, usually you say it's the only reason why those two clubs are bigger than the likes of Motherwell. But then, when the most blatant and serious example of it comes to light, is causing a national scandal and putting a man in fear of his life, and most of the country is in agreement that prejudice plays a crucial role in why it's happening, you decide to play dumb, deny it's even real and proclaim it's all brought on by himself because he's a twat.

I never said that prejudice plays no role in what's happening to Lennon. I've mentioned the fact that virtually all fans outwith the Old Firm in this thread have said that it plays a role, but it's not the only reason for it.

 

In short;

 

Does bigotry play a major part? Yes.

Does Lennon deserve the treatment he's been getting? No.

Is Lennon entirely innocent in this situation? No.

Could he do more to avoid stoking the flames of the situation? Yes.

That's fair enough, but that basically goes against what you appeared to be saying with post #3470. I even asked you to clarify in case it was me picking you up wrongly, or to give you the chance to backtrack if it was just poorly-worded, but nothing was forthcoming.

 

Anyways, i could still take issue with the 3rd one, but seeing as that 1st point has at least been cleared up, i think we can let it lie, we've both said our piece....