Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted October 20, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted October 20, 2011 I don't travellers, really. Why don't they, like, get a house or rent a flat or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 20, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted October 20, 2011 Surely if they were travelers, this wouldn't be a problem? They'd have fucked off by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Surely if they were travelers, this wouldn't be a problem? They'd have fucked off by now. That's kind of trite. Being from a traveller culture does not necessarily mean they travel all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Surely if they were travelers, this wouldn't be a problem? They'd have fucked off by now. That's kind of trite. Being from a traveller culture does not necessarily mean they travel all the time. I think that was Rick's attempt at getting a VuVu smiley moment there, Kenny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted October 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted October 21, 2011 Police marksmen covering disturbances at Dale Farm were required to open fire three times. They won a goldfish, a teddy bear and an inflatable hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 As the high court judge Mr Justice Ouseley accepted last month (in a judgment sadly not yet reported), Basildon does not provide enough legal pitches to meet the demand from local Travellers. By the most recent of the Department for Communities and Local Government annual counts, there are around 3,000 caravans on unauthorised pitches, two thirds on land that Travellers own but lack planning permission for. According to the Equality and Human Rights Commission, four-fifths of local authorities are failing to provide enough pitches and, at the current rate of progress, it will take nearly 20 years for the level of provision to match existing demand. The idea of "demand from local Travellers" is a bit woolly in a population as transient as theirs. Basildon offers over a hundred pitches - that's a lot more than other councils. And that's somewhat of the problem - Travellers tend to, well, travel, so if there's a council offering large numbers of pitches, then they tend to get even more travellers turning up. Ten years of legal paralysis at Dale Farm has led to the problem getting worse and worse as the number of illegal pitches there has grown. There are lessons to be learned from all sides. Councils shouldn't be left to their own devices as regards the number of pitches - there should be national min-max levels per council (weighted by overall population, say) so there's no confusion. But equally the Traveller community has to begin a long process of accepting that the laws of the land are not on an opt-in, opt-out basis for ANY segment of society. I have a friend who works as a legal aid solicitor, and has a lot of gypsy clients, and they say the scale of criminality amongst many of those communities is terrifying - up to and including murders that go unreported to the police more regularly than you'd like to believe. The inward-looking nature of their society hold them back from more thorough integration with mainstream society., and that's something ultimately only they can change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiffy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 There are lessons to be learned from all sides. Councils shouldn't be left to their own devices as regards the number of pitches - there should be national min-max levels per council (weighted by overall population, say) so there's no confusion. But equally the Traveller community has to begin a long process of accepting that the laws of the land are not on an opt-in, opt-out basis for ANY segment of society. I have a friend who works as a legal aid solicitor, and has a lot of gypsy clients, and they say the scale of criminality amongst many of those communities is terrifying - up to and including murders that go unreported to the police more regularly than you'd like to believe. The inward-looking nature of their society hold them back from more thorough integration with mainstream society., and that's something ultimately only they can change. Which, to be fair, huge amounts already have. If you go back far enough (about 4 generations) I'm descended from travellers, my missus is two generations removed. In so far as she's been settled for two generations. And if we're serious about getting them away fromt that, ensuring they have somewhere they can settle, and their kids can go to school, brings them into society and gives far more chance of them moving away from that type of society. That's the main problem I have with the dale farm evacuation, it moves the kids from schools, puts more of a chip on the shoulder of the people in the community, and generally makes the problem worse, rather than better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Absolutely, the whole thing has set the process back and as you say that generation of kids will grow up with hate in their hearts. There's nothing good about what's happened, everyone loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 This has the potential to be rather explosive; Turkey and Iran have vowed to collaborate in their fight against Kurdish fighters, as thousands of Turkish troops resumed their air and ground offensive against the armed groups in northern Iraq for a second day. The foreign ministers of the two countries announced plans to co-operate against the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) and its Iranian wing, the Party of Free Life of Kurdistan (PJAK) during a joint news conference held in Ankara on Friday. "From now on, we will work together in a joint action plan until this terrorist threat is totally eliminated," Ahmet Davutoglu, the Turkish foreign minister, said. Ali Akbar Salehi, the Iranian foreign minister, said he will seek more co-operation with Turkey against the fighters near their shared border. He said the PKK and PJAK were "common problems" for both countries. Davutoglu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Warrior Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Travellers need to work within the law, they were camped illegally they broke the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Western media have been downplaying Kurdish terrorism in Turkey for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamite Duane Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Further evidence democracy in the UK is an illusion? EU referendum: MPs told to vote against Monday's motion The three big parties at Westminster have told their MPs to vote against a motion calling for a referendum to be held on UK membership of the EU. The Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and Labour will all ask their MPs to oppose the move at a debate on Monday. A Tory MP is calling on his colleagues to back an amendment which would delay a referendum until the UK had renegotiated its position in the EU. The idea is being seen as an attempt to head off a rebellion by up to 60 MPs. The government would not be bound by the result of the vote, based on a motion by Tory MP David Nuttall, but it could prove politically tricky for the Conservative leadership. 'Country first' Conservative MPs are expected to face a three-line whip - not yet confirmed - which would require any in government jobs to follow the party line and vote against the motion or to resign their posts. Continue reading the main story “ Start Quote What matters is that backbench MPs of all parties should be free to vote in accordance with our beliefs ” Graham Brady Conservative MP MP 'will risk post over EU vote' In full: MPs backing motion One MP, Stewart Jackson, has already said he intends to vote for the motion even if it costs him his job as a parliamentary private secretary, saying: "Some things are more important than party preferment." Mr Nuttall's motion calls for a referendum by May 2013 and says the public should have three options put to them in the nationwide vote - keeping the status quo, leaving the EU or reforming the terms of the UK's membership of the European Union. David Cameron has argued he shares MPs' frustrations with the costs and bureaucracy involved in EU membership, but would oppose calls for a vote on whether to quit, saying it "is not our policy". In response to a question from Tory backbencher Mark Pritchard on Wednesday, the PM said "the right answer is not to hold a referendum willy-nilly in this Parliament when we have so much to do to get Europe to sort its problems out." Compromise suggested Mr Pritchard told BBC Radio 4's Today programme he was willing to defy a three-line whip if necessary. "This is about country first, party second and career last," he said. He added: "This is not about necessarily the terms of a particular bill... or a future referendum, it's fundamentally about freedom, it's about democracy and it's about the legitimacy of the European project." Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 committee of Conservative MPs, said, in an article in the Daily Telegraph, that "this is a backbench debate and there is no need for ministers to participate". "What matters is that backbench MPs of all parties should be free to vote in accordance with our beliefs and in the interests of our constituents," he added. In what is seen as an attempt to broker a compromise, Tory MP George Eustice has tabled an amendment urging the government to reconfigure its relationship with the EU - returning certain powers to Westminster - before putting the issue to the public. Mr Eustice, David Cameron's former press secretary, said the initiative was "not yet" backed by the government but he urged MPs of all parties to support it and suggested it "more closely reflected the views" of most Conservative MPs compared to Mr Nuttall's motion. "The advantage of having a referendum after the renegotiation rather than before is that the public would then be able to judge whether or not the government had succeeded and this would put pressure on the government to negotiate forcefully," he said. 'Collision course' Labour leader Ed Miliband said the prospect of a referendum would create further "economic uncertainty" and urged David Cameron to "show leadership" rather than make concessions to his backbenchers. "It (a referendum) is not the right thing for Britain," he said. "It is not the right thing for jobs. It is not the right thing for growth." Mr Miliband's stance has been criticised by Labour MP Graham Stringer who said backbenchers should be free to vote in any way as the debate had been organised by the Commons backbench business committee rather than the government or the opposition leadership. Mr Stringer, who says he will vote for the motion, accused all three party leaders of making a "mistake" at a time when the public were "clearly aching for a say on Europe". "Now is the time to give people a choice about whether they want to stay in the European Union," he told the Today programme. And the UK Independence Party, which campaigns for the UK to leave the EU, said the Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem leaders were "out of step" with the British public. "By forcing their MPs to vote against an EU referendum, they have set them on a collision course with the electorate. It has become the people versus the politicians," their leader Nigel Farage said. The debate has been brought forward by three days to allow Mr Cameron and Foreign Secretary William Hague to attend. They were both due to miss the original date on 27 October because of a trip to Australia for the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting. The BBC's political editor Nick Robinson says the prime minister wants to be in parliament for the debate so he can look his backbenchers in the eye and tell them: "Don't do this." A petition signed by more than 100,000 people, including Conservative and Labour MPs, calling for a referendum was handed into Downing Street last month. Members of the Commons Backbench Business Committee agreed to hold the debate on Monday. - Here's hoping a good portion of MPs will rebel, not tow the party line and do what's best for the people of the nation, letting us decide. We the people deserve the right to choose if we want to continue our membership of the EU, not an elite political class. Nothing to highlight regards Clegg in this article, however the progressive (change) LibDems are clear supporters of the EU project and are keen to continue down the same path of eroding our sovereignty. There really is little to differentiate between the LibLabCon. Edited October 22, 2011 by Dynamite Duane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted October 22, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 Using the BBC as a source now, Duane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Does anyone here really want to see an open-to-all referendum on something as important as EU membership? After the way the AV referendum turned out, I personally don't want decisions like that put in the hands of an electorate so easily whipped into marching to the beat of the reactionary, xenophobic tabloids. Democracy doesn't mean giving the electorate direct control of every legislative decision, or else we'd probably have hanging back too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrAzY Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 These Occupy LSX Protestors camping on the St Pauls church yard have forced them to close it, I hope God Strikes lightning on their tents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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