UKFF Questions Thread V2

[fraserbee]

I hate how people in wrestling think sometimes. You have someone who loves his job, takes great pride in quality of what he does, will put maximum effort into everything and will do everything asked of him, and his colleagues and bosses mock him for it.

[Onyx2]

There's some good chat in the Random Thoughts thread about Heenan being the greatest manager ever. And that's absolutely right.

 

But I was thinking about some of his 'Family'. Why pair him with Rick Rude, a good-to-very good heat machine with a decent gimmick and look? What's Heenan adding to that?

[ShortOrderCook]

You should stick that comment in the same thread Blizack. I'd say he did enhance Rude really and you need to put guys with Heenan who are of a certain level too so he doesn't look like he's just looking after schmucks. Managing Andre, Rude and Perfect really made Heenan seem legit as the manager to have.

[King Pitcos]

According to Heenan, Rude didn't like him and always thought Heenan was always trying to steal his heat. I think it's as simple as back then, Bobby Heenan was the go-to guy for main event heels.

[Arch Stanton]

Heenan was such a heat magnet back then, that if you had a hot heel and put them with Heenan, rather than over-saturate, the act got even hotter. That's the way it seemed to me, anyway. Like SOC said, Heenan was associated with top level guys too, so being aligned with him put you in an elite group. The likes of Perfect and Flair were incredible talkers, they didn't need Heenan, but their acts were enhanced by working with him.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I dont think Vince McMahon rated Rick Rude as a main eventer. Bobby Heenan vs Hulk Hogan or the Ultimate Warrior was where the money was. Rick Rude and Curt Hennig, sadly, weren't seen on the level of Heenan. People like Rude and Hennig needed a heater at ringside, because someone like Warrior just wasn't going to be booked where he could possibly be defeated in a one-on-one match against Hennig. Its why Dibiase had Virgil as well. To do the old spot where Hogan grabs him by the neck, Ted knees Hogan in the back and Dibiase gets the heat. Almost every heel had a manager back then.

Edited August 29, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[air_raid]

Also by taking a guy out of a territory and putting him with an established heel manager like Heenan (as Rude was, right from his TV debut), you guarantee instant heat from people who might not know him. The fans that didn't recognize Rude because they didn't watch him in JCP would think "new guy's with Heenan, he must be a cheating dickhead."

 

I dont think Vince McMahon rated Rick Rude as a main eventer. Bobby Heenan vs Hulk Hogan or the Ultimate Warrior was where the money was. Rick Rude and Curt Hennig, sadly, weren't seen on the level of Heenan. People like Rude and Hennig needed a heater at ringside, because someone like Warrior just wasn't going to be booked where he could possibly be defeated in a one-on-one match against Hennig.

 

Plus the heel manager was invaluable for the old trick of dirty non-finishes with Hogan or Warrior in the first run of house shows, so they could run rematches in the same towns on the next swing around.

[PowerButchi]

Thing is, I'm not sure if Rude could have done it on his own. He was pretty strong in WCW in '94 as a top line heel, but he still didn't say "money" to me. He always needed a Heenan or Heyman by his side.

[Doctor Whos Next]

Almost every heel had a manager back then.

 

 

Yeah, managers were really useful. As has been said, a manager could get heat for their charges against top babyfaces, but also, when that heel finally turns on the manager as a babyface, it really gives them a great start. For example, I remember being really excited when the Natural Disasters went 'face after Jimmy Hart screwed them over. Plus you had so many managers, with different styles.

 

Now of course, thats been replaced by the entire notion of the "heel authority figure". With the exception of Vince McMahon and possibly Eric Bischoff, they never really seem to get the heels over, and it all gets to be much of a muchness. Course, the current WWE storylines show a bit more promise.

[air_raid]

Now of course, thats been replaced by the entire notion of the "heel authority figure". With the exception of Vince McMahon and possibly Eric Bischoff, they never really seem to get the heels over, and it all gets to be much of a muchness.

 

No shock there : they did it first (if you refer to Bischoff in WCW). The concept of the top faces having to put up with stacked odds, unfair stipulations and unjust firings was completely fresh and in stark contrast to all the decisions being meted out by impartial or invisible championship committees/presidents, or latterly the babyface Commissioner (S)laughter in the WWF who actively feuded with the heel DX because they tormented him so. Every attempt at recreating the magic since has been met with diminishing returns because frankly, we've seen it all before. Bischoff's stint as RAW GM did provide great interest for me to begin with because of the novelty of seeing him working for the enemy, but that wore off. Kurt Angle's wheelchair-aided run on SmackDown I enjoyed, because of the humourous visuals it provided. But otherwise you say "GM" to me, I largely think of Teddy "tag team match" Long boring me to death, or Vickie Guerrero making me want to put my foot through the screen, plus an unnecessary level of convolution with "owners" "the COO" and "the board" complicating what essentially should be a simple setup.

 

I'd love a return to the days when matches were just announced or determined by "top contenders" matches (also just announced) to get away from the monotony of it all, but in reality somebody being "in charge" is now so ingrained into the minds of fans of the US national promotions, that it would be unthinkable to imagine Raw without somebody coming out on the ramp flapping their gums and wasting time telling us what we're going to see on tonight's show, instead of just giving it to us.

Edited August 29, 2013 by air_raid

[iamthedoctor]

Im looking for some indepth info during the late 1996 to Early 1997 WWF TV. I remember as a kid I found it very confusing. One minute they were hyping on Raw a matches and the next week when I tuned in nothing was mentioned about it. I had no idea as to why Goldust was feuding with Jerry Lawler and I remember them saying they were about 5 weeks away from the Rumble and the following week it was suddenly 2 weeks.

 

From memory back then I had to tune into WWF Mania to see exactly was happening with WWF with highlights of stuff on Raw that didnt air during the UK's Raw broadcast. Any kid would of been confused when they talked about Taker & Ahmed teaming up tonight which wasent strictly true because we had to wait a week to see the match. I gather we only got a 1 hr show so what America got 2 hrs we had to wait and stuff but Tazz attacking Lawler on Raw I dont recall being aired.

 

Any ideas when these delays started and when they finished, if they were splitting up Raw into 2 parts must of taken ages to get up to date.

 

Other quick question. How far in advance is Wrestlemania Main Events booked? If HBK/Austin from 14 was on the books for a while they must have been in jeopardy when Bret beat Shawn up backstage and he threw his hair on Vince's desk threatening to never come back.

[JNLister]

There've been times when they knew a year ahead, but back in that era, they usually had the main matches sketched out by around Survivor Series time. I doubt they'd have had much of a plan at the time of the fight. Even if they did, up till Vince decided to ditch Bret's contract, I'm sure the most likely plan would have been Hart dropping the title to Austin in a rematch from WM13.

Edited August 29, 2013 by JNLister

[King Pitcos]

I gather we only got a 1 hr show so what America got 2 hrs we had to wait and stuff but Tazz attacking Lawler on Raw I dont recall being aired.

Raw was two hours on Sky long before late 2000.

 

Other quick question. How far in advance is Wrestlemania Main Events booked? If HBK/Austin from 14 was on the books for a while they must have been in jeopardy when Bret beat Shawn up backstage and he threw his hair on Vince's desk threatening to never come back.

It varies. When the Michaels/Hart catfight happened, I think Bret vs Austin might have been the planned main event for WrestleMania 14. It was after that that Vince told Bret he couldn't afford to pay him and to renegotiate with WCW.

 

WrestleMania 13's main event was supposed to be Hart vs Michaels, but Shawn put paid to that, which was one of the reasons they ended up having their hair-pulling match.

[air_raid]

I had no idea as to why Goldust was feuding with Jerry Lawler

 

Lawler interviewed Goldust about his forthcoming match with Hunter. Lawler was perplexed as to why Goldy took such umbrage with Hunter hitting on Marlena because "You're a... well, you know... well aren't?" Goldust pushed The King with "A WHAT?" to which Lawler responded "Queer." Goldust replied "No!" and hit Lawler, to a big babyface pop.

 

Any ideas when these delays started and when they finished, if they were splitting up Raw into 2 parts must of taken ages to get up to date.

 

Fuck off with that.

 

To answer your question about Sky airing TV on an extended delay :

 

The television also fell one week behind during this period at some point between SummerSlam and Mind Games. It returned to normal by broadcasting the European Championship finals live from Berlin on the night of Wednesday Feb 26th 1997 which made up the content for the March 3rd Raw in the States (with different commentary. strangely enough) and "catching up" by airing Feb 17th Raw on Friday Feb 28th, an hour's worth of the "ECW invasion" Feb 24th Raw on Friday March 7th, and then broadcasting the March 10th "Raw Is War" as it had become on Friday March 14th, returning to normal delay time.

 

So there you go. It didn't take them ages, it took them a week, because they were only ever a week behind. They never "split Raw into two parts" i.e. aired one Raw over the course of two weeks but would air an hour of Raw on Friday night and sometimes extra happenings on Blast Off/Livewire on Saturday mornings.

 

Other quick question. How far in advance is Wrestlemania Main Events booked? If HBK/Austin from 14 was on the books for a while they must have been in jeopardy when Bret beat Shawn up backstage and he threw his hair on Vince's desk threatening to never come back.

 

Jaysus.

 

In no way shape or form do I expect that Vince knew what his main event for Mania XIV would be at the time of the Bret/Shawn backstage fight on June 9th 1997 - he had only just gotten his fingers burned with a Mania that needed numerous reshuffles, his two top stars couldn't stand each other, and he may have already been second-guessing Hitman's contract. If you believe Bret's side of things, had he stayed with the company rather than go back to WCW and renegotiate that deal, Vince was telling him he would have dropped the title to Austin at Mania XIV rather than Shawn, as discussed as late as October 1997.

 

Shawn did not throw his hair on Vince's desk after the infamous backstage fight ; it was backstage. He simply left the building saying he was going to Norfolk (where Nitro was happening that night). I don't know what you're on about there.

 

Raw was two hours on Sky long before late 2000.

 

I think he thinks Taz attacked Lawler on the 24th Feb 1997 Raw.

Edited August 29, 2013 by air_raid

[Onyx2]

How far in advance is Wrestlemania Main Events booked?

 

Stone Cold said on his podcast recently that Vince and Pat at one point had a board which sketched out the next year to WrestleMania, obviously massively subject to change.