Chris Benoit dead

[BurningHammer]

Also, BH - that's about the saddest thing I've read all week. Is that what they call compassion fatigue? Eddy and Hash made you care, but you just can't bring yourself to get bothered about three more people dying? Surely three deaths (especially of guys you were a fan of) that probably wouldn't have happened if not for wrestling should make you care MORE than just two?

Let me clarify, I was referring to Chris hanging himself when I made the comment, and to the "how can anyone watch RAW now?" question a few posts above. Hash and Eddy's deaths floored me (though really, the latter should not have been a surprise in hindsight), Chris', and the way he took other people with him, causes me to ask for more pressing questions than "will I watch RAW this week, or switch off in protest?"Nancy and Daniel's deaths were without question, tragic. Would they have been prevented had Chris not been in wrestling? That depends on whether the darkness Chris seems to have had in him would have manifested itself in other ways. I think it was Bryan Alvarez who said that he now believed Chris Benoit just had it in him somewhere to commit such an act, and that it may have there all the time. With that in mind, had Benoit not been in the business, it is not out of the question he could commit such an atrocity, with something like alcohol or stress being the trigger.

[kayfabeusmonkeyus]

There is one group who could stop it, and stop it tomorrow. And that's the wrestlers, if they all stop taking the pain pills, the juice etc and heal up if necessary then it stops tomorrow. Nothing vinny can do if the whole lot decide to do things a new way.But they wont, they've made there choice to do it this way, so fuck it - go with it. Or whine on here, but I'd lay good odds the whinging won't help

If you think it's more feasible for:a) an entire company of wrestlers - working in a precarious hierarchy within an environment where everyone knows one word out of place can seriously fuck with your career prospects - to, en masse, change the entire drug/body image culture of the WWE, despite the fact that every previous attempt at unionising or mass power plays from beneath has been instantly squashed from above;than:b) it would be for Vince McMahon - in an age where UFC outdraws his product largely based on exciting, skilled fighters weighing between 150-200lbs - to implement the changes necessary to wean his audience off the perception - that he created - that guys have to be huge to be worth watching, without sacrificing too much of his income;then frankly you're the one who's delusional. As it is, given how patronising your posts have been, I just think you're trolling.I'd also like to know why you think they would stop taking the pain pills without any corresponding changes in - you know - THE REASON THEY'RE IN PAIN?

Hey mick managed it, for quite some time, suck it up or get off the road their choice. You know full well what a wwe contract is when you sign it.And yeah, it's entirely down to the wrestlers as to how many pain pills or juice they take. You can kinda notice it by how, some do and some (a minority, but some) don't. Simple as that. If you want off the juice, come off the juice, if it affects your push but you live another 40 yrs great. If you figure fuck it take the risk and stay on it, great too. Their choice. And they've chose to stay on it after seeing eddy die, after seeing all the 80's guys hearts pop, fine good for them. And bear in mind the wellness policies already there, if they all decided to stick to it.....

[JNLister]

Or stop using banks because traders have as much chance of dying young of a heart attack as your average wrestler.

Source?I'm completely speculating myself, but I'm guessing if you took the leading 130 traders who worked for the biggest broker in the 1990s, there'd be a lot fewer than sixteen of them dead. But that's the figure for WWE. 130 people working WrestleMania matches in the 90s. Sixteen dead today. More than 12%. Just under a one in eight chance of not being alive today.

[kayfabeusmonkeyus]

Or stop using banks because traders have as much chance of dying young of a heart attack as your average wrestler.

Source?I'm completely speculating myself, but I'm guessing if you took the leading 130 traders who worked for the biggest broker in the 1990s, there'd be a lot fewer than sixteen of them dead. But that's the figure for WWE. 130 people working WrestleMania matches in the 90s. Sixteen dead today. More than 12%. Just under a one in eight chance of not being alive today.

I know a chap who trades reasonably high up for one of the major trading banks and there's a huge amount of ulcers, guys being signed off with stress and yeah a couple of heart attacks in guys under 45 since he started working in the big leagues. The degree of stress put on these guys is immense. 12-16 hr days five days a week or common, people's carreers do get made on one decision, and you're making that decision and there's alot of cocaine about, those that don't run on it run on 12-14 cups of coffee a day. Is it 12%? I don't honestly know, I also don't know how much of the 12% of wrestlemania workers could really be said to have been killed by the business per se. Yokozona was just immensely fat, told by wwe he needed to be less fat, didn't and then died of being fat. That takes it to 15. Earthquake died from bowel cancer, harsh but I've seen nothing to link it to wrestling. So we're down to around 8% already if you just look at things with an actual link to wrestling. Would seriously high up traders have an 8% chance of dying? I don't know. Does the stress and enviroment raise their risk in the same way wrestling would appear to? Absoloutely.

[tiger_rick]

Owen Hart died in a freak accident, that takes it down to 13. So 10% now.

[Chaka Demus]

What sounds better for them?"Benoit his son" or "Benoit choked his son to death"or"Benoit used his trademark wrestling move the "Crippler Crossface" to kill his son"

They both sound the same because they both translate as "Benoit killed his 7 year old son"

Oh shit did he? I didn't notice.Nice one Einstein.

You asked a question and I answered it. What else do you want me to do? Fuck off and die a horrific death you absolute cunt. Edited July 3, 2007 by Ally Clark

[Parkamarka]

Hey mick managed it, for quite some time, suck it up or get off the road their choice. You know full well what a wwe contract is when you sign it.And yeah, it's entirely down to the wrestlers as to how many pain pills or juice they take. You can kinda notice it by how, some do and some (a minority, but some) don't. Simple as that. If you want off the juice, come off the juice, if it affects your push but you live another 40 yrs great. If you figure fuck it take the risk and stay on it, great too. Their choice. And they've chose to stay on it after seeing eddy die, after seeing all the 80's guys hearts pop, fine good for them. And bear in mind the wellness policies already there, if they all decided to stick to it.....

The argument that if wrestlers don't want to fuck themselves up with steroids then they shouldn't be wrestlers is ignorant and redundant. You're basically calling us all fools for giving a shit about the health of these guys we watch every week and hoping that a bit of public outrage might lead to some systematic change.You can't see a problem with a system whereby Chris Masters is openly ridiculed and buried on television for coming off steroids, and is subsequently back on them within weeks? You think this is a black-and-white case of free will, and not maybe a teeny tiny bit about a negligently unhealthy work environment? Your argument is basically that to be a top wrestler, you have to be willing to risk your life for it, and if fans have a problem with that and would like to see the system made safer, they're idiots. That's retarded.

[JNLister]

Owen Hart died in a freak accident, that takes it down to 13. So 10% now.

Of the 16, there are eight that are either definitely drug related or at least extremely suspicious heart attacks (Bigelow, Bossman, Hawk, Hercules, Hennig, Rude, Sapphire, Smith). So at the minimum you are talking six percent, which is still very high. (For example, a similar number of men played in 1990s FA cup finals and only one is dead).Of the other eight, you have Von Erich whose suicide was definitely drug related. Sapphire and Bad News were both pretty much just old age. Earthquake was cancer and Dino Bravo was a murder.Owen Hart was a tragic accident. It wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been involved in wrestling, and it's a bit misleading to say it was unavoidable as it did result from very intentional actions (the quick release on the cord so that he could 'mess up' the landing for comic effect). But you can't necessarily blame it on wrestling as such.Andre and Yokozuna were both health issues related to their size. They'd likely have died early anyway at some point, but clearly the cardiovascular effects of pro wrestling wouldn't have helped.(As an aside, I only included the main PPV of each WrestleMania. If you include dark matches/Heat/pre-game shows, you can throw in Louie Spicolli, Rocco Rock and Johnny Grunge.) Edited July 3, 2007 by JNLister

[Stylin_and_Profilin]

Why did Bravo get chopped ?

[neil]

You asked a question and I answered it. What else do you want me to do? Fuck off and die a horrific death you absolute cunt.

I did warn you Ally.

[tiger_rick]

Why did Bravo get chopped ?

Rick Martel talks about it in his shoot. I can't remember what he said, but he goes into it. It's something to do with being involved in cigarette smiggling and being wiped out by a rival dealer. Someone will remember it better.

[Stylin_and_Profilin]

Ahh right i remember that now, sounds about right. Cheers.

[kayfabeusmonkeyus]

Hey mick managed it, for quite some time, suck it up or get off the road their choice. You know full well what a wwe contract is when you sign it.And yeah, it's entirely down to the wrestlers as to how many pain pills or juice they take. You can kinda notice it by how, some do and some (a minority, but some) don't. Simple as that. If you want off the juice, come off the juice, if it affects your push but you live another 40 yrs great. If you figure fuck it take the risk and stay on it, great too. Their choice. And they've chose to stay on it after seeing eddy die, after seeing all the 80's guys hearts pop, fine good for them. And bear in mind the wellness policies already there, if they all decided to stick to it.....The argument that if wrestlers don't want to fuck themselves up with steroids then they shouldn't be wrestlers is ignorant and redundant.

Read the actul words small foolish child. I said if they didn't wanna take steroids they shouldn't take steroids.

You're basically calling us all fools for giving a shit about the health of these guys we watch every week and hoping that a bit of public outrage might lead to some systematic change.

Yeah pretty much, it's their bodies and there choice, and watching em on the telly doesn't give you the right to try and control their choices. We've had ample proof that vinny ain't gonna change the way he does business and (most) wrestlers ain't gonna stop juicing.

You can't see a problem with a system whereby Chris Masters is openly ridiculed and buried on television for coming off steroids, and is subsequently back on them within weeks? You think this is a black-and-white case of free will, and not maybe a teeny tiny bit about a negligently unhealthy work environment? Your argument is basically that to be a top wrestler, you have to be willing to risk your life for it, and if fans have a problem with that and would like to see the system made safer, they're idiots. That's retarded.

Well in the matter of chris masters you got a shit wrestler with a decent body, once he got off the juice it's just a shit wrestler - so he got buried, life goes on. And yeah, to be top of the pile of WWE you have to be juiced or unusually naturally gifted in terms of physique (very unlikely) or have something else to get you there (like mick, again very unlikely) If you're not either of these things then you have to realise that juicing is necessary to be the best, and make your choice.See it's always interesting, when challenging people's steadfast perceptions, to see them reply to what they assume you say rather than what you said. Try reading a bit more carefully this time.Wrestlers, every single one, has the choice of how many roids to do, how many drugs to do - same as you or I. Now roids will help them in most wrestling jobs, not all by any stretch, but the more prominent ones certainly. And if you want to be the top of wwe, you may need to juice alot to get the size (Benoit) or a (presumably?) much safer amount (the rock) and you weigh up the risk rewards accordingly.I'm saying if you really don't like the system, and still support it but still whinge that something must be done - then you're a fucking idiot cos you're funding it.If it's as bad and evil as you think and you're even watching it on sky sports and giving em their add revenue then you're an actual part of the process, you're a tiny part of the reason eddy's dead now. You helped.

[Dirty Eddie]

What sounds better for them?"Benoit his son" or "Benoit choked his son to death"or"Benoit used his trademark wrestling move the "Crippler Crossface" to kill his son"

They both sound the same because they both translate as "Benoit killed his 7 year old son"

Oh shit did he? I didn't notice.Nice one Einstein.

You asked a question and I answered it. What else do you want me to do? Fuck off and die a horrific death you absolute cunt.

You didn't answer his question though, you made a smart-arse comment.He was bringing up the (perfectly valid) point that the death being linked directly to Benoit's famous wrestling move could lead to even more problems for WWE.Dick.

[kayfabeusmonkeyus]

Owen Hart died in a freak accident, that takes it down to 13. So 10% now.

Of the 16, there are eight that are either definitely drug related or at least extremely suspicious heart attacks (Bigelow, Bossman, Hawk, Hercules, Hennig, Rude, Sapphire, Smith). So at the minimum you are talking six percent, which is still very high. (For example, a similar number of men played in 1990s FA cup finals and only one is dead).Of the other eight, you have Von Erich whose suicide was definitely drug related. Sapphire and Bad News were both pretty much just old age. Earthquake was cancer and Dino Bravo was a murder.Owen Hart was a tragic accident. It wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been involved in wrestling, and it's a bit misleading to say it was unavoidable as it did result from very intentional actions (the quick release on the cord so that he could 'mess up' the landing for comic effect). But you can't necessarily blame it on wrestling as such.Andre and Yokozuna were both health issues related to their size. They'd likely have died early anyway at some point, but clearly the cardiovascular effects of pro wrestling wouldn't have helped.(As an aside, I only included the main PPV of each WrestleMania. If you include dark matches/Heat/pre-game shows, you can throw in Louie Spicolli, Rocco Rock and Johnny Grunge.)

I'd say the cardio vascular effects of wrestling probably helped earthquake - certiainly it doesn't bring on cancer, and it might well have staved off the heart attack that size put him at risk of. In the same way that yoko would likely have died a bit sooner if he'd done no cardio vascular work. Bossman - we know if that's steroids of fun time drugs?Wasn't bigelow just a junky and that killed him? Harsh for the lads family and such but there's still not much to link it to wrestling other than the fact he wrestled.Seems a bit harsh to blame the wwe for the fact that out of contract wrestlers take recreational drugs - would seem somewhat akin to blaming virgin records for sid's death. As for the biggy, the guys who got all roided up and it deaded em 20 yrs later. Harsh on their families, especially seeing as at the time the risks weren't so readily apparant. But now, with the risks known, these guys make their choices and take their chances.