Chris Benoit dead

[Gossy]

i was a big fan of benoit and although i can say what he did was right i still have no problem sitting down and watching one of his great matches.

I really hope you've missed the 't' off 'can't' and you're not condoning his 'Toothless Agression'.

[TheBigBoot]

... which raises a point: Given recent events it seems that there a lot of people out there who think the whole thing is an angle. The more you try to explain to them why it can't be, the more they think it is "fake". It's pretty messed up really. It's like people think that anything related to wrestling can't be real: from marriages, to injuries, to death. Despite the fact that those things also happen to people outside the world of wrestling on a regular basis.

People are just terrified - terrified - of having "one put over on them" by the wrestling business, and so their paranoia won't allow them to show a moment's weakness in the face of anything coming out of that deceitful, fraudulent world, lest they be made a fool of.Regardless of how foolish they truly appear in their resolve.

Paranoia is a good way to describe it. It's go to the stage where if Charlie Haas assassinated Prince Charles during the next European tour and his face was on the cover of every newspaper and at the start of every news report, there would still be some people saying "How can you believe that's real? It's obviously fake because it involves a wrestler!" From McMahon's position, I suppose that's not all bad. After all, if the stupider members of general public (and possibly the ones who'd be most likely to form a mob-mentality protest) think the deaths are all part of a "fake storyline", then they are not going to be as offended by them as they otherwise would, could or should be.

[Socrates]

On the way home from work, Radio 1 had a "this just in" type thing about the Benoit case.Something about how the death of Nancy was reported on the web before she was found.Breaking news indeed..........How many days behind?

[Finlay]

From pwinsider.com;The Associated Press sent out the following today, noting that the District Attorney has no plans to file any criminal charges in the Benoit tragedy. However, the Federal investigation into Dr. Astin, Benoit's physician, continues. Fayette County District Attorney Scott Ballard is also quoted as saying that the motive for Benoit's actions may remain forever unknown. Here is the AP story: DA: No State Charges in Benoit CaseMonday July 2, 11:27 am ETBy Harry R. Weber, Associated Press WriterDA Says No State Charges in Chris Benoit Probe for Now, Fed Probe OngoingATLANTA (AP) -- The state prosecutor in the Chris Benoit investigation said Monday he has no plans to file criminal charges in the case, but whether the federal government does is an open question. "From our standpoint, I have no reason to believe there will be any criminal charges at the current time," Fayette County District Attorney Scott Ballard told The Associated Press. "What the federal government is going to do, it will be up to them." A spokesman for the U.S. Attorney's office declined to say Monday if any charges were planned.Federal drug agents have taken over the probe into whether the pro wrestler's personal physician, Dr. Phil Astin, improperly prescribed testosterone and other drugs to Benoit before he killed his wife and son and committed suicide in his suburban Atlanta home last month. Ballard and sheriff's officials are overseeing the death investigation. Astin's attorney, Manny Arora, said Monday there could be federal charges filed against Astin in connection with the drug probe. "I wouldn't be shocked if there's some charges that come out of this," Arora told AP, adding that he had spoken with federal authorities and that his client will turn himself in if he is asked to do so. Authorities have said Benoit strangled his wife and 7-year-old son, placing Bibles next to their bodies, before hanging himself on the cable of a weight-machine in his home. Authorities have conducted two raids since last week at Astin's west Georgia office. Among other things, investigators were looking for Benoit's medical records to see whether he had been prescribed steroids and, if so, whether that prescription was appropriate, according to a law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity because records in the case remain sealed. Astin prescribed testosterone for Benoit, a longtime friend, in the past but has not said what, if any, medications he prescribed when Benoit visited his office June 22, the day authorities believe Benoit killed his wife. Meanwhile, toxicology tests on Benoit's body have not yet been completed, Ballard said. Anabolic steroids were found in Benoit's home, leading officials to wonder whether the drugs played a role in the killings. Some experts believe steroids can cause paranoia, depression and violent outbursts known as "roid rage." Ballard said finding a motive in the case remains elusive. "I think it will always be undetermined as to 'Why?'" Ballard said. "I think it's because there can't be any satisfactory reason why you kill a 7-year-old."

[Psygnosis]

Breaking News : Benoits doctor hands himself in

 

Uh oh

[kayfabeusmonkeyus]

My only part of this whole sorry mess was Vince McMahon, during an interview on some media outlet, saying 'the jobs of the WWE superstars are to put smiles on people faces'.Yep, the whole Vince death angle with a ten-bell salute was a hoot, let's not forget the miscarriage, necrophillia, rape, cancer, funeral storylines to name just a few.My face nearly cracked from smiling so much during those angles.

Made me chuckle to be fair, I think the trick is not to take it all so seriously....

[Viktor C]

Dave emailed me a copy of The Observer almost right away (making all my posts pointless but I had to cover bases in case) and it's a brilliant read.Interestingly a lot of the issues he raises are more sensational than anything I've seen on CNN or Fox News. Especially the one about the tribute show - posted in a spoiler earlier.From reading what he wrote there is little doubt in my mind that a Crossface of some sort was used on Daniel. Which makes the story even more sickening. I would read his comments and information in the police in full before saying this isn't true or made up by the media.In terms of The Sun's coverage of this event (which all had my real name on, as well as 'LilsBoys' online) and the paper in general - of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, although this is not the particular thread to debate it on.All the Chris Benoit stuff is at the link in my sig. If anyone has any comments on it or problems with it then please email me at simon.rothstein@the-sun.co.uk and I will happily reply. I would suggest people especially read the piece by Frank 'Chic' Cullen.Simon

Seeing as you posted on here, I feel it is only right for a public reply to allow the debate to develop further.Over the last few pages you basically pleaded for a copy of the Observer, as it is seemingly the source you entirely rely upon for your reporting.On that basis, however good or flawed your articles are, don't you think he deserves some credit?I can't imagine a football hack going onto an unofficial team forum after a star player died, blatantly asking for info to put into his column...I guess not...don't want that getting in the way of a big fat byline in the paper do we?

[NBT]

I've never seen a newspaper article with footnotes at the end Viktor.

[kayfabeusmonkeyus]

Dave emailed me a copy of The Observer almost right away (making all my posts pointless but I had to cover bases in case) and it's a brilliant read.Interestingly a lot of the issues he raises are more sensational than anything I've seen on CNN or Fox News. Especially the one about the tribute show - posted in a spoiler earlier.From reading what he wrote there is little doubt in my mind that a Crossface of some sort was used on Daniel. Which makes the story even more sickening. I would read his comments and information in the police in full before saying this isn't true or made up by the media.In terms of The Sun's coverage of this event (which all had my real name on, as well as 'LilsBoys' online) and the paper in general - of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, although this is not the particular thread to debate it on.All the Chris Benoit stuff is at the link in my sig. If anyone has any comments on it or problems with it then please email me at simon.rothstein@the-sun.co.uk and I will happily reply. I would suggest people especially read the piece by Frank 'Chic' Cullen.Simon

Seeing as you posted on here, I feel it is only right for a public reply to allow the debate to develop further.Over the last few pages you basically pleaded for a copy of the Observer, as it is seemingly the source you entirely rely upon for your reporting.On that basis, however good or flawed your articles are, don't you think he deserves some credit?I can't imagine a football hack going onto an unofficial team forum after a star player died, blatantly asking for info to put into his column...I guess not...don't want that getting in the way of a big fat byline in the paper do we?

Have you not seen the press in this country before?How often do reuters get credited by sky one? How often do sky one get credited by bbc (or vice versa) in fact how often does any news agency ever credit any other news agency? It doesn't happen (unless the writer broadcaster isn't convinced of the legitamancy of the story, and wants to be able to report on someone else reporting it to avoid being sued/looking silly) so to hold lilsboy here to a completed fabricated industry standard that you've made up seems a bit silly.Doesn't it?

[Kenny McBride]

Simon has properly attributed quotes from Meltzer in the story. What else is he meant to do? Share the byline and get the Sun to start paying Dave a salary?The fact is that in any form of journalism, you don't only rely on primary sources. You scour the other media to see what they're saying and use that, along with your own primary research and a dose of common sense to build your own story. We should be thanking God that Simon chooses to rely on Meltzer as a major fact-checker on a story like this rather than just get a direct line to Fox News and take the Geraldo/O'Reilly line on things. Dave is the ONLY journalist in the world who actually knows and understands the issues related to wrestler deaths and has covered them all in any kind of serious way. He's also just about the only person who knows who to call to get the answers to the all important questions. Simon posting on here about it isn't the most professional thing I've ever seen, but being pushed for time and not having heard from Dave himself, I guess he had to explore every avenue.

[Viktor C]

Ooooops - some people have had a sarcasm-detection bypass!My point was that it seems amazingly odd that a national tabloid reporter resorted to begging for a copy of the Observer on a wrestling forum on the netOn that basis, he is about as credible as David Arquette was as the WCW champion...

[Andi Rush]

Yeah, Meltzer's gonna make horrible stuff up about one of his friends and a guy he had admired and respected for 20 years in order to boost sales. After all, the kind of people who might read the Observer are exactly the type of people who are just dying to read that kind of thing.And as for your point about drugs...well yeah, the guys have to take personal responsibility for a lot of the issues. But at the same time, look at the likes of Randy Orton and Rick Rude. Orton lost weight while he was out injured and was then publically ridiculed for his size. If he wanted to keep his job, he KNEW he had to get back on the gear. Rude wanted to come off because he wanted to have kids and was concerned about his fertility. Again, Vince as good as told him that staying clean wasn't an option. And anyway, these days a significant part of the problem is not just the steroids, nor are recreational drugs as serious an issue as they once were. Pain pills are a major problem, and if you're one of the people who marks out for ladder matches or who thinks Mick Foley's HITC matches were wicked awesome, then you're part of the problem yourself. It's a pretty dangerous thing to judge the people in that situation.

For the record Kenny, you can call me a scouse theiving fat bastard, you can call me a fuckwit, but please don't ever call in to question my liking for serious technical encounters, even hinting I may like HITC Matches and all things Hardcore is beyond the line, but I won't take it personally.Whether Benoit did use some form of chokehold on his son, I personally doubt whether he'd use his trademark wrestling move, unless as someone else stated he was horsing around with him to lure him in.Vince and drugs is a subject that could be discussed till the cows come home, but nobody forces the said wrestlers to be pro-wrestlers, so it's a choice they make when they enter the business or end up at the top. Vince has to think about his own business and that means having all the lads looking huge, and I know and agree with you that it's a sad state of affairs that is has to be that way, but the average wrestling fan doesn't want to see someone who looks like they have just walked out school, they want muscular blokes who look the part and unless peoples perception changes or reverts back to a 1960's/1970's British Wrestling fan mentallity where technical aspects overshadowed the look, it will never change.

I Didn't know whether to believe it or not thinking it could be some angle due to Nancy's prior involvement with the business and the vince is dead storyline going on, but it was something Jim Ross said just before the Dean Malenko match that made me think my theory was genuine, I can't remember the words, but being quite a strong reader of body language and wordplay it was something along the lines of "please remember your dad was a great wrestler" and to me that said it all, Jim Ross KNEW what had happened but wasn't cracking on, but let slip that "Daddy" had obviously played some part in his wife and childs death.

Thanks for bringing that up again. People have been asking me all week if this is "real" or not after they've heard about it in the news. People are stupid. You are not the only one to have said something similar in this thread (see below for a few examples)...

Death AngleOn June 25th the WWE announced Benoit and his family to be dead, but it has been confirmed this is part of the 'murder' storyline that has also taken Mr. McMahon's "life".a mate found this on wikipedia but doesnt know what to make of it

I'm gonna be a real asshole and call shenanigans on this. If it comes back and hits me in the face then fine but at the moment I don't believe this.

I would be utterly disgusted if this was a worked angle, but wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.Wouldn't be surprised as well to see management making someone slag him off in attempt to gain some cheap heel heat.

I've just had an argument via text message with a mate of mine who seriously believes that this is all a work.Fucking people.

... which raises a point: Given recent events it seems that there a lot of people out there who think the whole thing is an angle. The more you try to explain to them why it can't be, the more they think it is "fake". It's pretty messed up really. It's like people think that anything related to wrestling can't be real: from marriages, to injuries, to death. Despite the fact that those things also happen to people outside the world of wrestling on a regular basis.Either that or they just don't believe what the media says in general. Now in this case noone has out-and-out denied that it was real to me, but the fact is despite the amount of coverage this has got in the papers and on television there are a lot of people who are unsure whether or not to believe what they've just seen reported. And wrestling fans are supposed to be the ones who are dumb?

I think if you actually read my post in full without glancing you'll notice that I was told personally about his death NOT by a media source, what you are refering to is my INITIAL reaction, not my reaction once it had been confirmed by media sources.

[Kenny McBride]

It wasn't exactly meant as a direct shot at you, Andi. But it's not even just the hardcore stuff anyway. Do you enjoy seeing guys take headdrops? Like the Benoit/Angle/Guerrero big suplexing style? It's all part of the same problem.

[Finlay]

From pwinsider.comFox News just reported that the investigation into Chris Benoit's doctor revealed that Dr. Phil Astin is accused with supplying "Benoit with a ten month supply of steroids, every three or four weeks, from May 2006 to May 2007."

[Andi Rush]

It wasn't exactly meant as a direct shot at you, Andi. But it's not even just the hardcore stuff anyway. Do you enjoy seeing guys take headdrops? Like the Benoit/Angle/Guerrero big suplexing style? It's all part of the same problem.

I've always been a believer in "Less is More" when it comes to big moves, I've never seen the whole point in performing a big fuck off suplex on somebody if your finisher is less threatening impact wise than your suplex, I think you should only ever bring out the big moves if the storyline requires it, for instance when Hogan Superplexed the Big Boss Man of the top of the steel cage at SNME that time, the situation required it, and you never seen Hogan do it again I don't think, so really I see no need for them unless they're a one off thingy like that.