Chris Benoit dead

[CruX]

its totally fucked thats what it is. I have never thought about anything for as long or in as much detail as this. 6 days of it, always playing on my mind, god knows why.

I know what you mean, it has been playing on my mind too. I am not looking for anything to Vindicate Benoit as it is clear that all the evidence points to him murdering his family but something just doesn't feel right, it is as if there is more to it. I would like to think that even after going bonkers Benoit would have left some clue as to why before topping himself. Especially as he left two children behind.As for him putting the crossface on, I can't say I have tried but I doubt I would be able to succesfully apply the crossface to my slightly undersized 6 year old. Kids arms slip out of the grasp so easily, more likely the bruising on the arm could be attributed to holding him down as he was struggling. Also I was led to believe the an investigating officer commented that the 'instruments of death' (odd choice of words) were found close by to the bodies. Suggesting to me that there was more than one item used to kill and as the bodies were found in different rooms then it would suggest that an 'Instrument' was used on Daniel, thus discounting the crossface theory.One thing that has struck me as odd and has not received much attention is the placing of two bibles by the bodies. Where did he get the bibles from? Were they new? Possibly bought on friday on his way home from the doctors? I would have thought it was an important clue as to what the state of his mind was prior to killing them. Where was Daniel when Nancy was killed?I have discussed this dreadful situation with people who don't watch wrestling and after going through facts and speculation several people have asked me if it is possible that given the fact there was a seperate address on file for him could he have been seperated from Nancy while they were sorting there problems leading him to return to the house on Saturday to find them both dead, then feeling he can't go on he hanged himself.The evidence points away from that but I guess that speculation such as this will go on forever unless they can conclusively provide a solid chain of events as to what happened and why. So far no clear motive is apparant. Aside from speculating that Nancy was leaving him or he snapped the only other motive I can take a stab at revolves around the odd fact he took life insurance out which would pay out to his ex wife and the children with her but not to Nancy and Daniel. If this is true then this could indicate premedication as far back as that, although if he had a standard policy benefiting his current wife and children then I would guess that with Nancy and Daniel being dead that his surviving kids would get everything and their mother could hold it in trust for them so the end result is the samw whether he cut Nancy and Daniel out or not. How would the policy stand up against suicide?

[Vampyromaniac1PW]

On the subject of him using the crossface,this may sound rather silly but im not in the habit of crossfacing small kids.But the size of Daniel,being as small as they're saying,is it even possible to applie the crossface properly.Just a thought as imagining him putting the proper crossface on him i can just see the distance between his arm & head being too short.*edit*Sorry just seen Crux's post above

Edited July 1, 2007 by Vampyromaniac1PW

[textonly]

Regarding the Crossface...Early on wasn't there a report that Daniel was suffocated with a bag? If so, it's fairly easy to imagine that Benoit could have used the Crossface positioning to limit any struggle and then pulled back on a bag over Daniel's face until he suffocated. That would theoretically account for several of the reasons why the Crossface is being discounted.

[CruX]

Regarding the Crossface...Early on wasn't there a report that Daniel was suffocated with a bag? If so, it's fairly easy to imagine that Benoit could have used the Crossface positioning to limit any struggle and then pulled back on a bag over Daniel's face until he suffocated. That would theoretically account for several of the reasons why the Crossface is being discounted.

A more logical approach would be to hold him on his back with ones legs and lower body weight accross one arm and place the other outside hand onto the other arm leaving a free hand to put pressure on a bag over the nose and mouth. If he did do it by pulling back he would have a more effective way of limiting struggle by placing all his bodyweight on top of his face down body. I get the feeling that all the claims of it being the cross face seem to be trying to suggest some sort of perverse activity. I certainly feel repulsed (even more than the actual murders that is) at the thought of benoit killing his son with such a move. Previously I have felt I would have no problems watching a benoit match knowing what his actions were, but if it becomes 100% confirmed that benoit killed his child with the crippler crossface then I doubt I could ever watch a benoit match ever again, in fact I would doubt my ability to watch any wrestling outside of world of sport.There is come thought that effectively and rapidly blocking the airway while sleeping would cause rapid asphixiation without the victim regaining their senses.

[Bix]

Discussing the best ways to smother a child w/ the crippler crossface is the creepiest net reaction so far.

[Tequila_Boy]

Wouldn't it of just been easier to smother him with a pillow/benoits rather large hands as the kid was in bed

[Andi Rush]

I'll be honest with you all the minute I was told about his death around 12.30am on the Tuesday Morning (BST) and was told his wife and child had died my first thought was "He's had some arguement with his wife and killed them both" and low and behold sadly I was right. I Didn't know whether to believe it or not thinking it could be some angle due to Nancy's prior involvement with the business and the vince is dead storyline going on, but it was something Jim Ross said just before the Dean Malenko match that made me think my theory was genuine, I can't remember the words, but being quite a strong reader of body language and wordplay it was something along the lines of "please remember your dad was a great wrestler" and to me that said it all, Jim Ross KNEW what had happened but wasn't cracking on, but let slip that "Daddy" had obviously played some part in his wife and childs death.So did the WWE know about it before hand? My guess is that maybe as a corperation they didn't as a whole, but the shop floor workers (i.e. Jim Ross) certainly had a very good idea about what went on that day and the previous day. I didn't see the whole show, just 5mins to see what was going on for a brief moment before going to bed, but just the words "please remember" spoke volumes, to me it was a plea not only to Benoit's family, but to a wider not yet knowing public to remember him as a great wrestler and judge the person in a different light.The people I've spoken to over the years who have worked with Benoit never had a bad word to say about him, from what I've heard he was a quiet, mild mannered always willing to help kind of bloke, so hearing the news is a bit mad to be honest.The whole "crossface" on the child story sounds bollocks to me, I think it's either someones imagination running wild or Meltzer trying to get some shock value media attention to boost sales, I don't think Benoit or anyone would apply a wrestling hold to someone with intentions to kill them, especially a child when it would be so easier to inflict other quicker, more tried and tested methods to do it.And as for drugs, both physical enhancement and recreational in Pro-Wrestling...well my opinion has always been the same, it's not the promoter that forces people into it, it's the wrestler themselves. Sure they might get more work juiced up to fuck, but no-one forces them to be a pro-wrestler, no says "you have to do this job for the whole of your life and nothing else" if someone doesn't like how the business is run, well don't enter it basically, weird thing to say I know and people will say "but it's their dream!" well if someone does say that, I'll say this; It's my dream to own a mansion in Monte Carlo and be rich as fuck but if someone said I could have it but I must risk my life in order to do so, I'd pass up the opportunity because I have the choice whether or not I wish to die or risk doing so for my dream, I wouldn't, others might, but it's their choice no-one elses, their not forced to be wrestlers, they do so because they wish so.

[Kenny McBride]

Yeah, Meltzer's gonna make horrible stuff up about one of his friends and a guy he had admired and respected for 20 years in order to boost sales. After all, the kind of people who might read the Observer are exactly the type of people who are just dying to read that kind of thing.And as for your point about drugs...well yeah, the guys have to take personal responsibility for a lot of the issues. But at the same time, look at the likes of Randy Orton and Rick Rude. Orton lost weight while he was out injured and was then publically ridiculed for his size. If he wanted to keep his job, he KNEW he had to get back on the gear. Rude wanted to come off because he wanted to have kids and was concerned about his fertility. Again, Vince as good as told him that staying clean wasn't an option. And anyway, these days a significant part of the problem is not just the steroids, nor are recreational drugs as serious an issue as they once were. Pain pills are a major problem, and if you're one of the people who marks out for ladder matches or who thinks Mick Foley's HITC matches were wicked awesome, then you're part of the problem yourself. It's a pretty dangerous thing to judge the people in that situation.

[freaky]

A few nights ago I applied the crippler crossface on a friend similar to the one above. Let's call it research.She couldn't move her trapped arm forward, due to being wrapped in my legs. But she easily bent it backwards quickly and easily enough to elbow me in the bollocks really hard.Did I apply it wrong or has she stumbled upon an ingenious counter that WWE superstars never thought of?

Her?!I smell a domestic.

[Kenny McBride]

Or a weird sex game.

[TheLilsBoys]

Dave emailed me a copy of The Observer almost right away (making all my posts pointless but I had to cover bases in case) and it's a brilliant read.

 

Interestingly a lot of the issues he raises are more sensational than anything I've seen on CNN or Fox News. Especially the one about the tribute show - posted in a spoiler earlier.

 

From reading what he wrote there is little doubt in my mind that a Crossface of some sort was used on Daniel. Which makes the story even more sickening. I would read his comments and information in the police in full before saying this isn't true or made up by the media.

 

In terms of The Sun's coverage of this event (which all had my real name on, as well as 'LilsBoys' online) and the paper in general - of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, although this is not the particular thread to debate it on.

 

All the Chris Benoit stuff is at the link in my sig. If anyone has any comments on it or problems with it then please email me at simon.rothstein@the-sun.co.uk and I will happily reply. I would suggest people especially read the piece by Frank 'Chic' Cullen.

 

Simon

Edited July 2, 2007 by TheLilsBoys

[evil dave]

i dont think the crossface even came into itthis was the act of Benoit the man, not Benoit the wrestler

[KrAzY]

I cant believe Benoit crossfaced him. Thats f*cking sick.

Edited July 2, 2007 by KrAzY

[Chaka Demus]

Maybe it was a mistake. Maybe Daniel never tapped so Benoit had no reason for letting it go.

[DJ Stevie C]

Bag over the face, knee on the flailing arm (hence the bruising)doesn't that make more sense than the crossface?Sensationalism for sensationalism's sake.